Effectiveskiing.com

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Effectiveskiing.com

Postby Vailsteve » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:34 pm

Has anybody checked out this website? A LOT LOT LOT of PMTS-type instruction...curious to see if he has permission from Harb Ski Systems for attribution of PMTS terminology and movements....


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Re: Effectiveskiing.com

Postby ToddW » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:50 am

The owner of that website participated here for a few months in 2012 until Harald banned him. The guy was stubborn and clueless and did not appreciate efforts by Harald and others to help him. His avatar is now a guy with his head stuck in the sand.

He positions himself as a great skiing guru on that large skiing forum owned by that monstrously large skiing company. His certs are csia and cscf (yawn).
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Re: Effectiveskiing.com

Postby Vailsteve » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:08 pm

Thanks Todd for the info. This looks like -- to me at least-- a blatent ripoff of HARB Ski Systems and PMTS to me.

Not sure if anything can be done...or should be. But it just doesn't seem right that he is attempting to sell a system that clearly is not his.

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Re: Effectiveskiing.com

Postby DougD » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:51 am

If PMTS were like Disney, there'd be an entire division of the Legal Dept dedicated to IP protection. They'd notify outfits like this one to cease and desist their infringing activities (broadly construed) or face legal action. If the infinging activities continued, formal actions would be commenced.

In such cases, the (allegedly) infringing small business would face immense legal costs to defend itself. They typically have few realistic options other than acceding to the larger company's demands.

Unfortunately, PMTS is also a small enterprise. It probably does not have the resources to support the legal actions needed to stop this sort of (presumed) infringement.

Sadly, failure to consistently defend one's IP can and does result in de facto loss of legal ownership rights. Bayer lost its rights to the trade name "Aspirin" partly for this reason. Small businesses are at greater risk because they lack the time, people and resources to discover and intervene against infringing behaviors.

Non-legal options are few (private requests, public shaming, etc.) and have a low probability of success. Anyone shameless enough to steal ideas and market them as one's own may not respond in a desirable manner. Further, such actions can easily backfire by generating negative publicity.

When Disney enjoins a small business from selling knockoff Mickey Mouse hats, they can withstand any negative publicity. It's almost always local, Disney is a multinational with endless resources and, in the end, they still own Mickey Mouse. PMTS has none of these advantages.
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Re: Effectiveskiing.com

Postby Vailsteve » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:12 pm

DougD....you are so right. In my prior life as an engineer, I did 4 high tech startups. IP was a big, big issue when trying to raise venture capital.

I actually have three USPTO patents in my name. We spent so much money on attorney's fees just to get the patents...but unfortunately, all a patent does is ALLOW you to sue. The cost to do so are exhorbitant. My last design was ripped off, and, being a small business, rather than fight it, it was easier to just sell it and the business to a bigger entity.

I fear you are right about Harb Ski Systems being a small business and the cost to pursue legal action is prohibitive. I think HH has trademarked "PMTS" but not sure how much further has has gone.

As you said, one must continually defend it IP, and one cannot always do that. Can I hope that effective skier fails??

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Re: Effectiveskiing.com

Postby ChrisC » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:18 pm

The problem with Razie's site seems to be more about plagiarism rather than patent infringement.

Harald's books have the usual copyright protection and I believe Harb Ski Systems owns some trademarks. So others can't reproduce material from the books without permission and they can't have a ski instruction method and call it PMTS.

I guess that Razie's site technically avoids these problems, but he's sailing pretty close to the wind here.

But you can use the same exercises as Harb Ski Systems if you want to. Isn't that what this site is advocating: that ski instructors change their teaching method to something more effective. It doesn't matter what names they use for the movements.

Some of this discussion also seems to be back to front. PMTS is Harald's choice of excercises to help recreational skiers perform the same movements as expert skiers - or at least as close as we can manage given physical and training time limitations.

The expert skiers developed the movements independently. Harald's books make them more accessible to recreational skiers.
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Re: Effectiveskiing.com

Postby speedcontrol » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:37 pm

I wasn't aware of this new site, but I watched Razie skiing once and I think he is 100% PMTS skier.
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Re: Effectiveskiing.com

Postby Vailsteve » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:57 pm

razie may very well be a 100% PMTS skier...I have never seen him ski...am not sure why he was banned from this forum..or why his site references a mixture of PSIA/CSIA and PMTS...

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