TTS - A Zero Theory

Friends get together

TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby Marc » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:52 am

I like to read this article discussing why Freudian psychology have survived for so long as an analogy to why traditional teaching systems (TTS) have survived. It is along the same lines as the "TTS bag of tricks philosophy" often mentioned here on the forum.

Paraphrasing: Why have [TTS] survived? A defender of the system would simply tell you it is because it is correct. How could you otherwise explain its impact on the [skiing industry]?

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2005/a-zero-theory/

Vocabulary:
Psyche = Skiing
Unconscious = Rotating and Extending
Psychoanalyst = examiner/level 4 instructor
Interpreting = MA by the -"-
International Psychoanalytical Association = PSIA/CSIA/etc
The Great Liar = ?

:D
Marc
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:29 pm

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby Vailsteve » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:37 am

for what it is worth, my thoughts on why PSIA remains the dominant teaching and certifying organization is much simpler: it was simply the first.

Back in the earlier days of when recreational skiing really began to take off here in the states (later 60's thru the 70's), the vail ski school became internationally recognized for its approach to teaching. Early instructors and ski school directors here at vail were imported from Austria...the "Austrian method" dominated here for years, Many of the teaching progressions that were taught were eventually codified into the PSIA handbooks. I believe Vail introduce the GLM method act in the early 70's.

And in fairness to PSIA, it did (does?) serve a purpose of "standardizing" a learning progression for beginners -- wedge and all. Please don't get started on the PSIA versus PMTS controversy. HH has fought the battle for decades now. We all know which one is better, but that is irrelevant to most ski resorts today.

Now, a significant reason for (PSIA or whatever) certification requirement is legal liability. In our over-credentialed society, pieces of paper mean more than actual skiing--or teaching-- ability. Heck, even our volunteer mountain host/ambassadors have been put under the auspices of the National Ski Patrol to help shield Vail Resorts from potential liability.

HH was and is a maverick, and in today's legal and social environment, mavericks cannot be allowed to disrupt the status quo. Too much money at stake. Unfortunately, this means the PSIA /CISA/AISA/et all certification and teaching model will continue to dominate at the large ski resorts.

But, I will say again, there is surprising number of PMTS adherents out there...Reilly O'Glasheon (sp??) from Australia being the latest. Great skiing, like cream, rises to the top.

Vailsteve.
Vailsteve
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:08 pm

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby skijim13 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:39 am

My favorite is the five skills for efficient skiing published in the fall issue of 32 degrees issued by the PSIA. The one that really would confuse a student that efficient edging is obtained by inclination and angulation of the skier, never talking about tipping of the feet. I was at party this weekend when I got into a discussion with two friends who are PSIA lifelong members, the said tipping starts at the legs and hips and you can't really tip once your feet are locked into ski boots. I did not really go much further in the talk with them on the subject.
skijim13
 
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 9:17 am
Location: Nazareth PA USA

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby Vailsteve » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:59 am

I saw that article. It does cause one's head to spin trying to comprehend it. I just find it amazing how PSIA can over-complicate anything. Words words and more words. Trying to keep everyone happy I guess.

Oh well. A Basin opens today and I have my Alignment Camp coming up next week. Life is GOOD!

VailSteve.
Vailsteve
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:08 pm

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby h.harb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:49 pm

Jim, the reason most ski instructors don't believe in foot and ankle use, is because they can't do it. Their footbeds and cuff alignment in most cases are so far off; they have no use of the feet and ankles and can't access these movements because of their boots. Therefore; of course they will never learn to use them.

In this case, of course they are limited and will always profess that all movements start at the legs. My favorite saying about PSIA. "Argue for your limitations and you own them."

There are many biomechanics that govern the way your understanding and movements in skiing develop. I know the history of the early PSIA progression developers. They all had strong feet and bowed legs, and were the best skiers in leather boots, therefore they were the gurus. When all they changed to plastic, hard shell boots; they found skiing very difficult with their leg set ups. The only way the could start a turn and look parallel was to steer the ski to a skid and add knee drive later in the turn. Hence the upper leg, steering era. Everything humans do has some relationship to what they have to do or can do, due to the equipment restrictions or body types.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby h.harb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:03 pm

One of the biggest reasons PSIA won't change is their fear of being exposed as incompetent; for the 40 odd years they have stuck to the same progression. Another is complacency, lack of caring about how skiers learn or how they progress. Another is keeping their jobs knowing what they know, and not admitting there is another or better ways. Another is straight up lack of knowledge and interpretation of skiing movements. Ski racers don't ski like PSIA. The best skiers in the world don't ski like PSIA. PSIA is a drag on the ski world, obvious every-time the PSIA demo team skis together; compared to the other demo teams.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby skijim13 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:38 am

Lorie and I spent the last three days skiing at the mountain, on Sunday we skied with some of our friends from the ski school. In the lodge they asked us how we had been improving our skiing since we had be working at the ski school. I got into the conversion with lady who is the mountain PSIA rep about PMTS and she was so interested I gave her links to look at PMTS skiing. When we talked about skiing she admitted that PSIA is more about fun and going to clinics than detailed theory and information. She was very impressed when I explained to her the details of release and the common problems seen with students during the release, she admitted it makes sense but was never presented to her in the PSIA books or classes.
skijim13
 
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 9:17 am
Location: Nazareth PA USA

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby Marc » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:33 am

Tracing the tradition of the TTS progression

Marc
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:29 pm

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby Obrules15 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:45 am

Marc wrote:Tracing the tradition of the TTS progression


Hmm, wow! That's just awful. First I was amused, then appalled which promptly morphed into pissed off.

But now at least I feel better about the worst of my stem christy habits. I was taught that for years in the 1970's, at least my residual bad habits now are a result of doing exactly what I was taught then.
Obrules15
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby h.harb » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:47 am

Someone in our last camp told me PSIA had a new list of it's technical edicts. I laughed because I knew it would be just a rebranding of the same old used up principles, like steering or rotary and extension etc. He read them to me and guess what? They were exactly the same ones as when I was on the demo Team. Also, Jim told me, one of the Demo Team guys wouldn't ski with him because he had seen that Jim had posted in favor of PMTS somewhere on the internet. WOW, can you believe how petty this organization is?

As far as the topic of meaningful credentials within PSIA. I had two or three PSIA Demo Team pins, all kinds of patches, uniforms, certificates for examiner, trainer, and alumni certificates. They are all in the garbage. When you don't respect the level of proficiency, or the product, how can you be proud of being a member of such an association. It would be disingenuous.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby h.harb » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:57 am

Every so often I hear from PSIA friends. They say, "PSIA is using some of your stuff." Here is my answer: "They can't be successful with using my stuff; or my system because : of this reality."

Yearning for a new way will not produce it. Only ending the old way can do that.
You cannot hold onto the old, all the while declaring that you want something new.
The old will defy the new;
The old will deny the new;
The old will decry the new.
There is only one way to bring in the new. You must make room for it.
—Neale Donald Walsch
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby h.harb » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:04 pm

Someone posted on my Facebook page: Some of your stuff? It's the only stuff. You can quote me on that.


That's right, PSIA calls PMTS Direct Parallel, "Some of Harb's "Stuff", Because they have no clue about how it actually works!! They hang on to the same old PSIA!. Their only response is, "We use some of PMTS stuff, some of it works, and they don't even know how or what it is. LOL. The ignorance and resistance to education is astounding.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby noobSkier » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:47 am

I too have noticed local instructors teaching a bastardized version of the phantom move. What's funny is that some instructor was telling me that a wide stance gives you better edge hold because you can "dig in" with both edges; so I asked him this: If thats really the case, then why do you practice 1-legged skiing?....*silence*.
User avatar
noobSkier
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:35 am
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby h.harb » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:13 am

Don't try to explain yourself to PSIA,
You are not the “Brain Washed” Whisper!


This explains why people never change their minds or get mislead.

https://www.facebook.com/AwarenessNewsProject/videos/537246446650384/
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: TTS - A Zero Theory

Postby bmoose21 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:47 pm

Just started part-time ski instructing this year after spending some time studying and working on PMTS. So far I have blown away by how true all of the statements about TTS are after being 'trained' and attending a few clinics. The most shocking thing to me really has been hearing the background and resumes of these people, the number of years of racing, instructing, certifications, titles etc. I just can't help but wonder why during all that time have they never bothered to learn one of the few alternatives to their methodology? Maybe they have but dismissed it for some reason, or just don't care. Each time I talk to someone with the credentials I've been disappointed by their skiing -- was hoping these folks would really be able to lay it down but to be honest the most impressive thing I've seen so far is a perfectly smooth, slow-motion wedge christie. I guess I should give some credit though where it is due, my wedge has improved considerably...
bmoose21
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:36 pm

Next

Return to Social Chatting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest