Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Friends get together

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby CO_Steve » Mon May 02, 2016 8:05 pm

h.harb wrote:What is even more revealing is that they actually believe this is good skiing. Do these people not watch good skiing or see it anywhere? Are they locked in a bubble with ugly skiing as their model?


I skied about 50 days this year at Aspen/Snowmass and I could count the number of people I thought were good skiers on one hand. This includes the army of ski instructors that are always on the mountain. I know you said this sarcastically but there's a lot of truth there.
User avatar
CO_Steve
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:32 pm

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby Jeet » Mon May 09, 2016 4:02 am

BASI is going through some tough times, legal issues etc. A large percentage of BASI instructors are now labelled as IASI.
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby h.harb » Mon May 09, 2016 7:57 am

They had groups all over Hintertux, one of their trainers told me they were being sued by the instructor that was put in jail.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby Jeet » Mon May 09, 2016 9:07 am

That's correct. The below is a copy and paste from an article from a website called insthesnow.com

"The legal battle between the British Association of Snowsport Instructors (BASI) and ski instructor Simon Butler (pictured in green on the right above) is set to continue in to next year.

Mr Butler is challenging BASI on a number of issues including their alleged decision to “withdraw” his MoU which would have allowed him to teach in France under existing French regulations, which Mr Butler does not believe are legal in any case under European equal employment law and is also challenging separately through the French courts. Mr Butler is seeking damages from BASI of £507,500.

At a court hearing in Edinburgh on 18th November 2015 it was decided the question over the MoU should be considered at a further court hearing on 8 to 11 March 2016. If this finds in BASI’s favour then the question of compensation will not be relevant unless Mr Butler appeals the decision. If it finds in Mr Butler’s favour a further date may then be set to consider the amount claimed."

Jeet
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby willwingpang » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:13 pm

Hi guys

Just to let you know that I'm a new member to the forum, I have know about HH's teachings and his skiing for a very long time and it's about time that I come here! I've been recommended by my like-minded friend Jeet to join the bandwagon and learn more about PMTS and it's essentials.

I am ski instructor with Vienna Ski Association in Austria and with 2 seasons experience. When I first trained for my Anwaerter, I never done much skiing in fact about 1 or 2 weeks worth, so I committed hard to this opportunity to learn. I remember clear as day how much effort the Austrian coaches drilled us on the 'alpine basic position' or as they say it over there 'alpenenfahrverhalten' - Ski's hip width, ankles/knees/hip sockets flexed, all joints plus shoulders parallel to the mountain, pelvis/torso (zipper line) facing almost down the valley, arms on the side relaxed and bent - And of course most of your weight on the outside ski. The coaches were constantly nagging/encouraging us to practice our basic position, you have some trainees that understood the idea while others didn't seem to understand or cared as long as they can pass the 10 day and then go on a apres ski bender and then go on to teaching!

What I found mind boggling with the Irish and British ski associations was that they seem to think that making turns like a fridge was acceptable skiing and that this should be taught to the paying public. I am not saying that the Austrian system produced an endless supply of 'top class' ski instructors very winter, but in my opinion even the lowest quality level 1 ski instructor trained under the Austrian system (they can be Austrian or English or Dutch or Czech etc) can still ski better than IASI or BASI's higher quality level 2 instructors (this argument excludes racers or ex-racers who want to instruct recreational guests :lol: ).

What do these three systems have in common? They are all TTS (I think that's the right term) and I have for one am trying to break the mould so that firstly I can improve my skiing and secondly provide better instruction and demonstration to my guests.
User avatar
willwingpang
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:26 am

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby ToddW » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:24 pm

Welcome.

You may encounter ski school pushback about modifying your teaching and demonstrations.

Improving your personal skiing is definitely doable. The quickest way to progress to a high level is to start at the beginning with the Expert Skier 1 book. As Max_501 is fond of saying, start at the beginning and do all the drills and exercises precisely. Don't move on until you do them well ... until you could proudly do a demonstration. Everything is there for a reason.

When you move on to Expert Skier 2, nothing is a repeat of Expert Skier 1. Both books talk about releases for example, but the book 2 releases are significant refinements of the book 1 releases. Book 2 has several "performance test" sections. Put significant time into passing these tests with top marks. Expert Skier 2 has been called the War and Peace of skiing. Every word is there for a reason. Pause and reason out why seemingly unneeded words are there. You will learn a lot about skiing by doing that.

Next, take a look at the instructor manual and Essentials of Skiing (book and 3 DVDs). As before, work through everything.

Every time one of us skips steps to speed up this learning process, we limit our potential. I've made this mistake many times and would be a much stronger skier if I hadn't wasted time in this way.

Since you're in Austria, there are still openings in the 2nd Austrian PMTS camp in late March at Hintertux. If you're interested, here's a link http://harbskisystems.com/collections/harb-ski-camps This camp is tons of fun -- I've flown from North America to Austria 6 times to attend it. Here's a thread from last year about the Hintertux camp: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4774

PS As Jeet has discovered, frequent video significantly accelerates a skier's learning curve.
.
ToddW
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: live: Westchester (NY) / ski: Killington

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby Jeet » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:56 am

Welcome Will. Nice to see you have posted and joined the band wagon. Lets get some video in ASAP. A place where you will get honest feedback regarding your skiing and then action steps to move to the next level. It's up to you how take the information and what you do with it.

Guys expect a few more joining from the UK :)

Jeet
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby willwingpang » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:44 pm

JEET - Cheers old chap! Hey the next time we go for another session, I want you by my side sipping tea/coffee/Skiwasser or whatever when I go for that 1 min break. Also next session, I am going to make sure you stop for at least 15 minutes to get videos of my skiing! Plus, I feel we need to foster a stronger group connection with the other PMTS guys at Hemel, an exciting group dynamic will give training an extra whizz.

ToddW - I know what you mean by pushback, had it happen to me last season when my senior colleague (Austrian) found it hilarious when I was using my inside to ski start tipping first. The first few weeks of the season I was teaching guests of what I knew from HH youtube videos, and they just enjoyed it because it was something different. At the time, I didn't fully comprehend the full understanding the phantom move, but I had already learnt in the Austrian Alpine Position which involved CA and CB and the phantom move was a great addition to my skiing to what I knew already. Also HH's straightforward explanations of tipping, flexing, CA and CB really helped with my skiing and lessons.

Anyway, once our school had ski teacher training, my skiing got diluted and confused. The rookie instructors thought my skiing was great, saw that I had good balance on the outside ski, good alpine position, and nice skiing for someone like me who only skied for under 2 seasons. But in my heart, I knew I had problems with my skiing, mainly with my release, tipping and poor inside ski management. Now that I'm back in England and hooked up with Jeet, signed up on the forum, waiting for my books to come (how to be a skier 1+2 and pmts instructor manual) and putting in quality training. The new season is going to be the gamechanger because of PMTS.
User avatar
willwingpang
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:26 am

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby DougD » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:51 am

willwingpang wrote:Anyway, once our school had ski teacher training, my skiing got diluted and confused.
Receiving inputs from different skiing methods will confuse almost anyone. Until your PMTS movements are solidly established, participating in non-PMTS instruction will hold you back.

One of the most enlightening aspects of PMTS is that different instructors will give you the same basic guidance. Each will have their own insights of course, but the core instruction for what each student needs to work is amazingly consistent from one instructor to the next. Every camp attendee experiences this, because the instructors swap or float between groups during the week.

I've had dozens of TTS lessons in 30+ years of skiing. No two of them were ever consistent with each other. Real learning never happened because they didn't really know what they were meant to be teaching. TTS has no definition of expert skiing movements, so it can't produce expert skiing.

ToddW's advice was spot on. Read it again. Do the books and drills in order and don't skip any steps. No matter how trivial might think they are, each one has a purpose. Do it until you've mastered it before moving to the next.

Minimizing your exposure to other teachings will definitely help you progress faster, as will working with other PMTS skiers. Good luck, enjoy and welcome!
DougD
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:22 am
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby willwingpang » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:45 pm

Hi DougD

I have both ACBAES 1 and 2. I have looked at the progression in book 1 and understand completely its logic. In my opinion, there are one or two steps that I have seen being used in the Austrian Vienna Ski Instructor Association.

I would never dare to think any of the steps trivial, everything single one of them all have their purpose and objective. Like HH has said in his book, his system is an effective and streamlined teaching tool aiding the guest skier to get the best out of their learning experience, and I totally agree.

When I was revising for the Austrian exams, I had to look up and memorize a very long winded Austrian ski teacher ski progression, with three levels - level 1 green, level 2 blue, and level 3 red and black. Each level had its own catergories.

Level 1 - getting used to equipment, straight running, snowplough, snowplough turns.
Level 2 - edging/sliding, snowplough parallel.
Level 3 - basic parallel turns long and short, dynamic parallel turns long and short. Level 3 carving long and short turns, GS technical, off piste skiing, bump skiing and free style.

And from straight running to carving, everyone of them has an individual methodical ground structure, I'll just give the overall basic structure.

1. Repeating already known exercises
2. Unconscious learning
3. Explanation and stationary exercises
4. Demonstration and copy
5. Traversing
6. Fan progression
7. Garlands
8. One C turn / One and half C turn
9. Linking turns
10. Variation in terrain, swings up the mountain, radius and rhythm.

All this and learn German! Loved every minute of it - learning to ski the Austrian way introduced me to the best kind of skiing in the world, and by luck led me to find HH's videos on Youtube.
User avatar
willwingpang
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:26 am

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby willwingpang » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:38 am

Ooops realised i made a mistake, the basic methodical ground structure start from snow plough turns to carving.
User avatar
willwingpang
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:26 am

Re: Level 2 IASI Short turns - More like level -2

Postby DougD » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:41 pm

The mistake is believing that snowplough turns can lead to carving. :twisted:
DougD
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:22 am
Location: Connecticut, USA

Previous

Return to Social Chatting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests