Turn analysis

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Turn analysis

Postby wrpeterson » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:33 pm

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=908783919168110

Saw this on that *other* ski forum and offered a small critique as far as the pole drag, hop and 'A' frame - any thoughts?

(BTW its Felix Neureuther - #2 in WC Slalom last year)
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby h.harb » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:45 pm

Yes, this isn't disciplined skiing it's just a cruiser run by a skier who can do anything. How many fall into this level of capability. Watch him when it counts, not when he's goofing off.
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby wrpeterson » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:24 pm

Thanks - makes sense...

One item that was mentioned was that the Germans are taught to drag the inside pole - not sure if that was the case?

Bill
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby h.harb » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:06 pm

I don't build my technical assessments of skiing and teachings based on hear-say, I watch what actual movements are making a great skier work well, balance and be successful.
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby ComprexX » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:14 am

I don't really see "bad" free skiing there, in fact he has good counter balance and counter acting, tipping, calm upper body, skis appear to be carving. Looks better to me than most of the national demo team photos from the recent Interski.
Dragging the poles is a technique in Felix's quiver, and I think this is acceptable. His inside hand stays neutral or even a bit forward.
Watching him ski world cup slalom it's obvious he has excellent upper body/pole discipline when required or desired.
I like to observe other skiers technique while I'm riding the chairlift- on a typical day last year, I bet I did'nt see 5 out of a hundred skiers who skied anywhere near as well as Felix in this video.

What's the difference between what's being called a "hop" in the video, and a retraction or adaptation to terrain, or just catching a little air off a bump?
He does'nt make what I would call a gross "up" movement with the whole body.
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby DougD » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:08 pm

It's amazing what people think they see when they don't know what to look for. "Hop" means to push yourself off the ground by extending your legs. He didn't do that.

He got airborne because the hill fell away and he didn't feel like retracting rapidly enough to stay earthbound. He was having fun, but not by hopping.

Watch the angles of his knees. He released by flexing his stance leg through the bottom of the turn until it matched the flex of his free leg at transition (ski bases level with the snow). The hill then fell away from beneath his skis. Only then did his legs extend to regain snow contact. No hopping. No gross muscular efforts at all... just a vivid demonstration of how releasing by flexing produces a weightless, floating transition that frees the kinetic chain to respond to small foot movements.

Notice that:
1. His tips touched down well ahead of his tails. Ergo, his feet were pulled well back. Even goofing around, he displays a mastery of fore/aft balancing that few skiers accomplish even when trying hard.
2. His tips touched down already tipping onto their new edges. When he left the ground he was just coming off his old edges. The edge change occurred in mid-air, where there's nothing to push against. This is only possible by flexing and tipping.
Last edited by DougD on Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby ComprexX » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:28 pm

I wish we had a "like" button on the forum, so I could like your post, Doug.
I'd describe a hop as you did-pushing yourself off the ground. I see what you described--thanks for spelling it out. 8)
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby DougD » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:35 pm

Harald has made it so easy. All we have to do is read and follow his insights.

Of course knowing is one thing, doing is another. I only just achieved transitions with zero extension or steering late last season. It's absolute magic, but I'm sure Harald and the other coaches will have no trouble picking my skiing to pieces at camp in November... I hope!
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby blackthorn » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:20 pm

:)
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby Max_501 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:13 pm

DougD wrote:Notice that:
1. His tips touched down well ahead of his tails. Ergo, his feet were tucked well back beneath/behind his hips. Even goofing around, he displays a mastery of fore/aft balancing that few skiers accomplish even when trying hard.


Clarification -

His feet are NOT back beneath/behind his hips. The instruction is to pull the feet back toward the hips with enough effort that you try to get them back to the hips, but it won't happen, even if it feels like it.
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby blackthorn » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:40 pm

Max - point of clarification please - for this move which I was actually trying a couple of weeks ago. Is this movement generally one of knee flexion without much hip extension?
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby Max_501 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:51 pm

My avatar is a decent example of pulling the feet back which is done by contracting the hamstrings.
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby blackthorn » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:41 pm

Thanks. I thought as much when my movements were not producing the outcomes I was seeking to achieve. In fact I think I commented on your Avatar in this respect in an earlier thread. I hope the Northern Hemisphere has a great ski season. Ours has been very good.
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby DougD » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:26 am

Max_501 wrote:Clarification -

His feet are NOT back beneath/behind his hips. The instruction is to pull the feet back toward the hips with enough effort that you try to get them back to the hips, but it won't happen, even if it feels like it.

Thanks Max. Always appreciate your greater technical understanding. Edited my post.

As Harald said above and as you've often posted, analyzing turns like this won't do much to help any of us ski better. More important is the 2.5 hours I spent on the slantboard the other day. That challenged my movements and balance, which my body can actually remember and replicate (once my glutes stop aching!).
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Re: Turn analysis

Postby h.harb » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:34 pm

Since we don't have a "like" button the closest idea would be to pt up a :D or more :D :D :D :D
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