Observations from Abasin

[Ihamilton]

I have been skiing for about two weeks here. There are lots of race teams here from ten year olds to university age. Yesterday Harald came with a small group of 13 year olds. All week I have been watching coaches and their racers ski down as fast as crowd and conditions permit. today in the lift line I overheard a young coach tell her ten year olds to go,as,fast as they can.
What was immediately noticeable about Harald's group is how slowly they skied down and how many times each run they would stop for coaching. The other race groups may stop once and then they just go to the bottom. Harald's kids might do 25 turns and stop and then get immediate feedback. Harald's kids are skiing no wider than a groomer width.
I observed some of Harald's coaching close up today. There isn't a lot of talking. Each kid gets their feedback and then Harald' does a demo and waives them down or sends them down a short distance for more feedback. What these kids are doing is tough, they are constantly working under a watchful coach. I noticed a big difference from yesterday to today in their skiing. Their turns are round, speed is controlled at the top of the turn and they are making a real effort to employ all the essentials in their skiing.
These kids are learning more than PMTS, they are also learning discipline. In the space that Harald's kids are making 25 turns, the other race kids are maybe doing 4 turns at double or triple the turn width. Harald's coaching and the kids participation is working. The kids are smart enought to know that their hard work is paying off. I read a quote which I think is appropriate, "discipline is the bridge between goals and achievements."
I mentioned to Harald the difference I saw in his coaching methods as opposed to the other coaches having their kids go fast. I suggested that the other coaches preferred the fast speed runs because the other coaches can't do a demo of slow speed short turns like Harald can, so they ski fast and have their kids do the same.

[go_large_or_go_home]

I suggested that the other coaches preferred the fast speed runs because the other coaches can't do a demo of slow speed short turns like Harald can, so they ski fast and have their kids do the same.

You've nailed it....using speed to mask technical deficiencies....I have seen HH do the most amazing slow speed short brushed carve turns with more angulation, CB, CA etc than I thought possible - all on a flat run out towards the ski lift line....perfect balance, everything stacked and in line, all in SLOMO...

[Max_501]

I have seen HH do the most amazing slow speed short brushed carve turns with more angulation, CB, CA etc than I thought possible - all on a flat run out towards the ski lift line....perfect balance, everything stacked and in line, all in SLOMO...

Isn't watching HH do that amazing! The need for excellent balance at slow speed is quite high because you can't use centrifugal force as a crutch.

[Ihamilton]

This morning there were 3 or 4 teams there from Vail. They were skiing very slowly at the star of the day but there was no mistaking those teams for Harald's team. The Vail teams were coming down doing power ploughs. I guess the coaches decided beforehand what drills their teams were going to do because all the Vail teams I saw were doing the PP. The coaches were doing them and instructing the kids to push hard on the ski and make the ski bend. I am quite familiar with PP, I did them a lot when I was in the CSIA maze. Back then I was told I was really good at PP but that movement never translated into good skiing because when I pushed against the ski I rotated and skidded. Now that I am out of the clutches of the CSIA I can find some amusement in PP drills but at the time it was so frustrating.
When I left yesterday at noon Harald's team were still skiing very slowly. The turns were more dynamic this morning. Diana was helping this morning. Harald did demos of dynamic ST on the steep pitch of Ramrod. Watching Harald's turns is a bit paradoxical. It doesn't look like he is doing anything different than he was yesterday with the slow turns but the skis are really performing and he is cutting some really dynamic turns. His team was the same. They were holding back a bit I think to perfect the movements, and when I was close to them Harald was videoing, but those kids had as much speed as the other racing teams, they were just using the speed differently. Harald's team were very fast through the apex of the turn so their turn radius is much shorter and they make twice as many turns. Further, they keep the same high speed through out the run, they don't gain speed in the fall line or in transition. The other teams are skiing faster down the hill but they gain speed on every turn and they have hard edge sets at the bottom of the turns.
The boys were having a good time. I was only close to one of their scrums but they were chattering away about the feelings they were getting and happy with the positive feedback from Harald. All of the team was much improved from yesterday. To my eye the smaller boys were more agile. They are all 13 years old and the bigger boys must have gone through recent growth spurts, so they have temporarily lost some of their agility, but they are getting it.

[Ihamilton]

This morning I watched Harald do angry moms on the upper flats and about halfway down Ramrod. Harald and Diana each had a team. They can't do diagonals, they do stationary exercises and then ski down for feedback.
To help the CA Haralds team was skiing with their hands far apart and holding the outside hand back. Several kids were brining the outside hand forward and they were getting coaching on correcting that and doing exercises such as double pole tip drags to help learn the proper position of the hands and arms through out the turn.
The other coaches were bringing their outside hand forward and in towards the inside hand. At the end of the turn their elbows are outside their hands. In the CSIA we called this position hugging the bear. We actually did a drill where we would bang our fists together at the end of the turn.
In the CSIA I was criticized for rotating yet they had me do drills like power plows and hugging the bear which result in rotation.
Harald and I were chatting while waiting for his team to take the lift and get to the top of Ramrod, we were halfway down where the runs split. I told Harald what iwas observing. A Vail coach went by with about six kids behind him. The coach couldn't see the team behind him and they went top to bottom. The coach was hugging the bear and pushing off the stance foot. He was squared up to his skis and skidding.
Diana was below us and her team was waiting next to us. The kids were around age 13. After the Vail team passed Diana waived the first girl down. I didn't hear the coaching but recognized CB exercises. Those girls were working on finesse movements but the result was power and performance by the outside ski, far more than the Vail coach.
Why do TTS coaches think they need to coach students to have power on the outside of their body and OS ski? The outside power happens automatically from the results of the shape of the ski, gravity and momentum. The trick is to harness the power which is created naturally. Attempting to use outside body movements such as brining the outside hand forward or pushing off the outside foot actually reduces the natural power on the outside ski. Diana's girls and Haralds boys were learning that such movements as wide hands keeping the outside hand back and continuous moving the the inside hand and body forward increases the power to the outside ski.
These Pmts kids are really gutting it out. It's an inspiration to me.

[DougD]

Race coaches are TEACHING kids to move their outside hand forward?

I'm just a recreational skier. No race training at all. But I've known for years that this is wrong and ineffective. To actually coach such ineffective movements to young skiers is criminal.

[h.harb]

So if this is so obvious, why do all PSIA instructors ski with this movement (arm wrapped around forward and upper body squared at the finish) and why do all the racers on the hill drop the inside hand and reach the outside hand forward. We are the only ones on the hill trying to teach the reverse of that???????? You must be some kind of special minority who has figured this out???? You should send us some video of your skiing, as we would like to see a recreational skier doing this correctly, because it's so rare????

[DougD]

My answer appeared twice for some reason. See the post below.

[skijim13]

Since learning PMTS I find it hard to watch our racers on our mountain, they have a wide stance, start turns with the BTE push, skate into turns and straight line it down the hills. The sad truth is that many of our race coaches are PSIA ski instructors that moved over to the race team with no other training. Now that my wife and I use PMTS and work hard at making slow round turns we are in danger on the mountain to getting hit by the other skiers and snowboarders behind us out of control. One person who hit me ask why I skied over to the right of him below the hill, I told him that skiers make turns, the comment was he just straight down the hills and I got in his way. Many of our friends have now told us we ski old school now with our more narrow stance instead of the wide stance everyone uses even the racers. I not surprised to see that our racers are not doing well in competition they are not being taught the correct skills and no one will listen because their egos stand in the way.

[DougD]

So if this is so obvious, why do all PSIA instructors ski with this movement (arm wrapped around forward and upper body squared at the finish) and why do all the racers on the hill drop the inside hand and reach the outside hand forward.

Great question. You've been asking for years and PSIA has never answered, right? I certainly don't know. In 30 years of skiing I've intentionally minimized my exposure to PSIA instruction.

You must be some kind of special minority who has figured this out????

Very observant, Harald. Being gay, I am part of a special minority. Thoughtful members of any minority learn at a young age that majority-approved dogma must be treated with skepticism, and scorned if it proves wrong. Many things advocated by majorities are wrong. Repetition doesn't make them right.

With regard to inside hand dropping/outside hand reaching, I didn't figure this (or anything) out entirely by myself. I've had some good coaches.

When my ex and I began skiing in 1984, we took the PSIA's Wedge and Stem Christie lessons. After 10 or 15 ski days we were having fun but we were also exhausted and frustrated, without quite knowing why. In retrospect, our bodies were telling us that those methods didn't provide a path to the kind of effective, effortless skiing we saw real experts doing.

Just then, Lito Tejada-Flores' first articles appeared in 'Ski' magazine. BINGO! Here was someone who talked about how a ski actually worked, and how the average skier could help it work as designed with less effort. In just a few days on snow, self-teaching using Lito's ideas, our skiing level skyrocketed beyond that of our lesson-taking friends. The bankruptcy of TTS methods was instantly and hugely obvious.

LIto's methods were incomplete, certainly not as effective as PMTS has become. But in those pre-PMTS days, he opened my mind and allowed me to ignore TTS methods that didn't work.

BTW, I took a clinic with you and your Winter Park team back in the 90s. It was a two-day affair focusing primarily on alignment. I believe you were just developing PMTS at the time, but you made my footbeds and boots work better. I'm still using those footbeds (about time for a new pair, lol.)

In 2012, a (very un-PSIA) Taos instructor confirmed my inside hand-dropping (with my R hand) and helped increase my awareness/control of it. He also taught LTE tipping to initiate turns. Not PMTS, but that very effective movement reminded me of your first articles. So I Googled "Harb"... and here I am.

You should send us some video of your skiing, as we would like to see a recreational skier doing this correctly, because it's so rare????

I plan to. My current partner and I are joining Skijim13's Killington Posse in December. Hope to get some video there. Also, my partner's going to the Green/Blue camp at Granby and I'll be along.

P.S. Please note that I DID NOT claim that I use my hands correctly. I defer to you and other qualified PMTS coaches to say whether I do or not. But at least I'm aware of the consequences when I do it incorrectly (tails washing out, loss of CA, impaired ability to transition quickly and smoothly into the next turn). My astonishment was that any race coach would be intentionally teaching such ineffective movements.

[Ihamilton]

Skijim13, I wrote on this topic to try to describe to readers, especially other instructors, what I was seeing at Abasin. There are only two runs open here and those two runs share a common start, split and then join together part way down before separating again. There were a large number of teams here last week and it was easy towatch and compare the various tactics and results of each group. There was nowhere to hide, all coaches could be observed and their teams progress marked. I no longer teach but I am still very interested in teaching and I enjoy watching the teaching tactics. There was a whole panoramic view of teaching right in front of me last week. There are a few strategic places to stop and observe the show and the coaches use those spots too so it is easy to over hear the coaching.
You mention that others think of your skiing and instruction as old style because of your narrow stance. Once last week when I was listening to Harald's coaching I heard him telling the kids to get their inside foot close to the stance foot at transition and try to get it closer through out the turn. He and Diana are the only ones coaching that. All the others had a wide stance.
This morning I watched one of Harald's boys come down. He is an excellent skier. In the middle of his run in two consecutive left turns he brought his right hand forward maybe 6 inches more than he should have. For the rest of the run he corrected his left turns and if anything he exaggerated his CA on those turns. He felt his mistake and made an adjustment. He and Harald talked it over for about 15 seconds. The boy knew what his feed back from Harald would be. That is effective coaching. Not many words were required, just confirmation between the two of them about what had happened.
The whole team made great progress. They are all going to Copper starting tomorrow. Btw the kids aren't missing school. They are off the snow at 2pm and go to classes.

[skijim13]

I know both systems the PSIA (TTS) and PMTS, based on biomechanics and results PMTS is the system that will give you performance skiing with a clear pathway there. The PSIA has no real system because anything goes. The higher the level of instructor the more things they make up. The problem is that skiers in general have big EGOs, give them an instructor jacket and they think they are world class skiers. The only way you can learn something is if you realize that you have something to learn which is not a case with the majority of skiers. I know I still have a great deal to learn, but this is what keeps me engaged in the sport. I have pointed many of my friends and fellow ski instructors to PMTS and only end up getting attacked. Most will not even look at the information I send them. One of my friends and Coworker at the ski school kept telling me if I only skated into each turn I would improve greatly (heard our trainer/examiner tell us that). I pointed out that you should release with flexing not pushing off he changed what he said and said he meant that you should get on edge early like in skating. I offered to send him a link to Harald’s Blog, which has an excellent explanation of ski transitions , he did not even want to look at it. This is an example of why there will never be much change in the skiers and racers. The worst thing to happen is the PSIA to get aligned with race instruction. Last year I was at the Pro Jam (to keep my certification), our trainer was a high level PSIA/and race coach. He skier with a narrow stance but told us to widen our stance. One of the fellow skiers had a major fore/aft problem which he never picked up on. I told my fellow skier on the side the secret of pulling the inside foot back. This one tip helped his skiing greatly and he thanked me for it (I told him I learned it from PMTS not PSIA).