Another skier....

[arothafel]

This was just posted at YouTube. He seems to have the no-swing pole plant down. What do you think of his skiing...

[skijim13]

The purpose of the no swing pole plant is keep your CA from unwinding before you get on your new edges, this skier is square to his skies and lacks CA in his turns a important componet in skiing. The skier also lacks CB in many of his turns. IF you want to learn more about the no swing pole plant download the angry mother one and two evideos you can purchase on the Harb website. I learned a great deal from them, to me learning counter with the pelvis was very difficult to learn, it did give me a angry back in the beginning of the learning process but it was worth it.

[DougD]

Hi folks. Long time lurker but this is my FIRST ever post, so take this for what it's worth, lol.

I second Skijim13's observations, and add that the skier appears knock-kneed in virtually every turn. Presumably an alignment issue. Additionally, he does not employ free foot tipping early enough or increase tipping throughout the turn. More experienced PMTS skiers/coaches might bluntly state that he doesn't employ tipping at all... no argument from me.

His stance issues and lack of tipping combine to limit his CA and CB, especially on longer radius turns. This results in lower edge angles than he could achieve with better PMTS technique. Leaning inside and inadequate tipping causes occasional balance/edgehold problems at higher speeds. The turn from 0:33-0:35 demonstrates all of this.

That said, he does appear to be releasing by flexion, his hand/arm control is generally good and he's obviously a strong, athletic skier. I don't see any really bad, PSIA-type movements, just incomplete development of some of the good movements that Harald has been trying to promulgate for so long. A little PMTS coaching with focus on alignment, better hip rotation with CA/CB and free foot tipping would turn him into a really top class skier.

OK you real PMTSers... pile on!

[deicreo]

Skijim13 wrote:
...this skier is square to his skies and lacks CA in his turns a important component in skiing. The skier also lacks CB in many of his turns.

Longer turns can have the issues you have mentioned. But, I focused on his shorter turns and they are looking really good from PMTS pov.
There is lots of tipping and CA/CB as well. I do not see him square to his skis in his short turns. Look at his inside hand which is kept high and moving forward
throughout the turn. His pole plant is the NSPP.

[jbotti]

I dont think you will see a lot of long time PMTSers "piling on" because most of us that have worked incredibly hard to become good skiers have a great apperciation for anyone that rips. Giving armchair MA to someone that outskis the entire forum (ex some of the black level instructors) is just in bad taste.

We have tried to focus people's MA on those that ask for it in the MA section and in the racing section where we talk about what WC racrers are doing in their skiing. Having said this, there is value looking at anyone's skiing and seeing what they do well and what we might do differently (from a PMTS persepective).

[skijim13]

I have been working hard to learn movement analysis from a PMTS view and have been using these examples to learn and test my movement analysis. I knew his skiing looked good, but slowed it down and compared it two what I have been studying and posted what I thought I saw. Does anyone have a good approach to learning movement analysis for PMTS? I usually start with the checklist, and came up with the CA and CB not being enough for this example. I agree that he skis very well.

[HeluvaSkier]

I'll echo what jbotti said. The short turns and off piste turns are money. You'd be hard put to find a better example. Great skiing.

[blackthorn]

This skiers 'rips" as do many PMTS skiers, slarvers, freeskiers, racers, and even TTS instructors - and good luck to them all.
I think it is reasonable to critique the skiing ( and on this forum of course it is all about PMTS ) but avoid criticising the skier - respect.
Reading other peoples constructive MAs has helped me gain a deeper understanding of PMTS and also I enjoy seeing where my MA differs from others.
It also seems to bring out some concepts that are not always easy to get from the other PMTS material. Certainly, probably nothing new, but possibly seen and said in a different way.
PMTS to anyone but a real afficionado is a little "inaccessible" at times - so anything that broadens the base, and increases the appeal is likely to be a good thing. I don't think it represents a danger as there is such a fantastic body of work that supports it all.

[Max_501]

The purpose of the no swing pole plant is keep your CA from unwinding before you get on your new edges, this skier is square to his skies and lacks CA in his turns a important componet in skiing. The skier also lacks CB in many of his turns. IF you want to learn more about the no swing pole plant download the angry mother one and two evideos you can purchase on the Harb website. I learned a great deal from them, to me learning counter with the pelvis was very difficult to learn, it did give me a angry back in the beginning of the learning process but it was worth it.

1st - Art has been to many camps and a member of this forum for ages so he knows why we strive for a no swing pole plant.

2nd - The blanket statement that this skier lacks CA is incorrect because the shorter turns show strong CA and strong CB.

Reading other peoples constructive MAs has helped me gain a deeper understanding of PMTS and also I enjoy seeing where my MA differs from others.

If you want to gain a deeper understanding of PMTS the path is easy to follow. Study Books/DVDs 1, 2, Essentials, and Performance Free Skiing. If you are a seriously interested in MA then study the PMTS Instructor's Manual too.

[skijim13]

Max I agree with you and I have all of the books (and videos) and read (watched ) them many times and studied them in detail. I also have collected over 100 pages from the forum and watched each chalk talk many times. I think the visual thing of MA by slowing down the video and looking at each part is somewhat difficult to learn. I think my confusion with the CA is in the new video by for the angry mother 2 your still face you old stance ski until you start on your new edges. In the video I commented on it appeared when his skis were flat ad he was square to his skis and while the video from angry mother two said to be still slightly facing your old stance ski (hips and upper body). Being an analytical person I sure I am over analyzing the details. My goal is learn to do MA on myself and my wife during the season to enable us to improve ourselves. We are still novices to PMTS (working on it for two years from a PSIA background) but working hard to learn, we will be attending our first Camp, SuperBlue in January.

[Matt]

In the video I commented on it appeared when his skis were flat ad he was square to his skis and while the video from angry mother two said to be still slightly facing your old stance ski

I'm not sure I agree. The best SRT sequence is probably around 1:10 and I think he is still counteracted when the skis are flat.

[skijim13]

I will look at the video again at the time you said, I downloading a new video processing tool this weekend on my home computer that should help with freezing frames.

[HeluvaSkier]

Jim,
In terms of MA, you'd be much better off comparing your skiing or your wife's skiing to Haralds skiing to truly understand the fundamentals of PMTS. The only way you will get a lot out of doing MA on a skier of this level is if you are skiing at this level and know exactly what you are looking to compare.

On the topic of MA, I spend maybe 10% of my time doing MA on other people's skiing. The remaining 90% is spent doing MA on my own.

[Erik]

Jim-

You will get great experience to follow up on HeluvaSkiers's suggestion at the Super Blue Camp.

First of all, you will be put in a grouping with skiers who have similar needs from a PMTS perspective. When you do daily videos with your group and the PMTS coach, you will get to hear the coach's analysis of your skiing, and to see the specific video clues he/she is picking up in the video, and get invited to offer your own observations about your skiing. And then you will get to hear the coach/group MA of the other skiers in the group.

One of the benefits will be that in those videos, you are all on the same slope, probably focusing on the same PMTS movements that you have just been working on for a few hours. So you will get to do MA of skiers of similar ability, all working on the same thing, and you will get to see the difference in movements, and how that translates into different outcomes in the turns.

Sometimes the coach says before the video run: "Tell the group how you are going to demonstrate counterbalancing for the video run, and how we will be able to tell if you are successful when we watch the video." So it might turn out that you say: "I am going to demonstrate the boot touch drill we have been working on. On every turn, by the time my skis are pointed down the fall line, you will be able to see that I am counterbalancing because my outside hand will be clearly touching the top of my boot." And then you will be graded on whether you delivered on your focus and execution.

In the camp, you won't do general MA of your free skiing, because there is always going to be a focus, exaggeration, or drill execution for the video run. Within that framework of the video runs, you will get plenty of feedback on the other things going on with your skiing too.

You will also gain some insight into alignment issues, and what the coaches are seeing that cause them to make various on-slope tests with various shims under the boots.

Erik

[Max_501]

My goal is learn to do MA on myself and my wife during the season to enable us to improve ourselves.

Other than camps, the best way to learn MA is to post video with your own MA. And then we'll comment as needed. You won't learn MA that is applicable to you and your wife by analyzing skiers like those in the video posted above.