I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Friends get together

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby h.harb » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:17 am

I've skied with Schmitt on hard snow, it's not pretty to watch, not a good technical skier, his element if soft snow and huge jumps. The word "Extreme' comes to mind.

Skied with Marc Giardelli and know him quite well. He is a power house for sure and did some amazing things with really bad boots and huge injuries.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby A.L.E » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:38 am

h.harb wrote:
go_large_or_go_home wrote:Harald,
I am a complete convert. Your style is efficient, graceful and effortless. Already your methodology has made massive gains.. However, I have to ask.....have you always skied like this? Or is this a system/ style derived from years of experience and, dare i say it, maturity? Is there anybody else - apart from Hirscher (who, although is brilliant is not a pmts skier) that your rate?
To use a tennis analogy - roger federer is the master..


I've never been asked that question before. My skiing evolved on it's own, as a kid and teenager. I always watched other skiers even as a boy, I picked the ones I wanted to ski like and tried to copy them. There was no coaching worth listening to in those days. Once I was on the Alberta Team and was invited to ski with some of the best skiers in Canada, my eyes were opened further. At that time we didn't have male World Cup winners, but we did have three guys who were consistently top 10, even top 5 runs.

In those days we never saw ourselves ski so. (no video) I had no idea about my technique or the way I skied. I knew I was one of the fastest slalom skiers and often had fast GS runs but I didn't know my methods or even which movements were right or wrong. So in a nut shell I relied on my body and my senses.

I remember at one Nor Am race at Stowe Vermont, I was 4th or 5th after the first run, one of my team mates from the Irwin family, made a comment to me, something along these lines. "How do you go so fast by skiing so round?"
I thought at the time, it was an insult. I was always trying to go straighter. We all thought if you went straighter and closer to the pole, you would be faster. Later when I began coaching I started to understand what was needed and we also had video by then.

I watched Stenmark, everyone did, and Gunther Mader, I skied with Stenmark, followed him down the mountain, I didn't have trouble matching his turns or shape. I don't recall when I realized it, but it was during my coaching years, that my technique was different from most skiers and even most racers. I made turns and I never hit hard on the edges. I was able even at 35 years old, without training, to jump in a race course and ski as fast as National Team guys in slalom.

This goes back to the comment, "you ski so round". Knowing what I know now, I realize that I was using movements "maybe early versions of them, that created carving. Which makes sense because even to the other racers; I looked like I was skiing a rounder line, but I was faster. Most of my teammates where skiing straighter, but also hitting harder. After my coaching years, when I skied on the demo Team and started writing my books and producing videos, my skiing changed with the equipment and I emphasized High C carving and developed the pure carving techniques. And later modified them for all levels of skiing.

Skiers can learn to ski the way I do with PMTS technique, but they will never got it with TT system approaches. So where does this carving or round turn originate or develop. I have no idea, I never intended to ski that way, I didn't even know what it was, but it seemed natural so I did it. Even when I tried to ski straight at the gates and turn or get on the edges, as late as possible, I was still rounder than any one else. It must have to do with my flexibility, natural alignment and the ski's feedback.

So, as far as I know that's how I ended up skiing the way I do. Of course upon realizing what I was doing, I studied and enhanced it because I liked it. It makes sense and it makes skiing easier on the body and legs.


A question we've probably all wondered about.
User avatar
A.L.E
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:18 am
Location: sydney australia

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby jclayton » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:58 pm

Hey Harald ,
changed you tune on Nadal ? I've been waiting for this . He he . Would you say he was the Giradelli of tennis . Gutsy for a Mallorquin kid . Mallorca , ( a place renowned for its potatoes ) , produced Nadal , Jorge Lorenzo and Carlos Moyá , plus sailing gold medallists and NBA basketballers , must be the quality carbohydrates ! Guillermo Vilas brought his tennis academy here .
skinut ,among other things
User avatar
jclayton
 
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:37 pm
Location: mallorca ,spain

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby h.harb » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:50 pm

Basically he has done what I never thought he could, which is stay healthy enough to play the style of tennis he's playing. It is truly incredible, he recovered from his knee issues and is moving this well..He has also changed his game to shorter rallies, which is one of the reasons he's winning. He's more aggressive, shortening the points and making incredible shots off both sides. Mentally he's a giant, that's how he crushed Djokovic, relentless.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby Basil j » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:37 pm

Totally agree. Nothing fazes Nadal. He plays every point like it is match point. I am not a huge fan of the reverse forehand that he seems to hit 90% of the time now , but it works great for him. tennis is so physical now, much more so than any other time in history. I used to Think Thomas Muester was super physical, and he was, but Rafa brings it to a whole other level. he is also eager to tweak his game and make changes. Unfortunately I think Federer is more reluctant and his game is simply no match for Nadal or the Djoker at this time.
Basil j
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby Max_501 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:46 pm

Federer and Nadal have played each other 31 times, with Nadal leading 21–10.

Federer and Djokovic have played each other 29 times, with Federer leading 16–13
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby h.harb » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:20 pm

Federer's backhand is killing him.
He's lost his consistency against the power game of these younger guys, I still love his game, but he would have to gain 15 pounds and train like Agassi did in his last years.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby Skiasaurus Rex » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:00 pm

It's been a fantastic 8 years of men's tennis (if not US men's tennis). When you realize that players the caliber of Ferrer, Tsonga, and Berdych have never won a slam, and Del Potro has only won once (and Andy only twice...and I wish they'd stop with the 'Big Four' talk-he's still on the outside looking in), it's the Big Three (and only out of Deference to Federer's career--in reality it's the big 2)-those guys would all have multiple slams in any other era. That's not a knock on them, just a tip of the cap to Fed, Djoko and Nadal.

What's underrated in Nadal's game (although Johnny Mac points it out often enough-and says he's the best) is his volley, net and drop shot play. That's where his speed and polish combine to absolute mastery. In the endless flurry of heavy-ball, inside-out forehands it's easy to overlook this other great part of his game (he only uses it against the best players, but he used it plenty against Djoko). His slice backhand caused Djokovic fits at the open.

What I also love about both of these players, is that neither has a power serve (Nadal rarely hits over 120)-but that pure high-spin technique is just as effective (especially when Nadal serves to the deuce court, the way his ball hop in to other player, really deep in the box is nuts to watch). Great athleticism matters, but the corollaries to great skiing is there, real power comes more from technique ( Nadal's Western-Grip, Lefty, forehand is one of the greatest, most beautiful and technically proficient strokes in the History of Tennis...right up their with Federer's One Handed Cross court top spin backhand) than raw strength.

Also, I should add, Nadal has benefited from rock-solid faith and consistency in his coaching. It has been noted here and elsewhere how great Athletes like Bode inability to listen to or find consistent coaching ultimately impinged on their greatness (though, yeah-he was pretty great anyway-but he should have been greater). Last year, when nadal's career was teetering and aside from his health issues it looked like he'd never get passed Djokovic again just about any other pro tennis player would have ditched their coach (and probably blamed their coach)-Nadal's steady faith in a coach who has always had the largest view of his career (and has the benefit of being a close relative who genuinely loves him) has been a huge part of his return to greatness (and possible greater than ever before). Even for pro's (just like aspiring skiers on this forum) it is easy to get side-tracked and confused by misinformation, especially when things appear to be on a downward cycle. But, Rafa has had one and only one coach his whole life, consistency and trust coupled with a great long term plan go a long way.

Anyway, Getting to watch these giants play head to head is one of the great joys of sports...dont blink because it will be over all too soon (Djoko and Rafa are 27 well north of the age most greats win slams..McEnroe never won a slam after the age of 25..Agassi and Federer are true exceptions). Don't know about you guys, but I still miss Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky --I should have savored their play more when I could. It's probably the way Harald feels about Stenmark...
Skiasaurus Rex
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:18 am

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby h.harb » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:24 am

Interesting post about athletes, although there is also Murray in the top 3, he's a step behind Djoko and Nadal in my estimation. Djoker and Nadal have it on movement and speed. And as Rex says, I like the fact that the serve isn't dominating. It sort of naturalizes the power rackets. I love the fact that Nadal has changed his game, learned to trust his volley and moves himself into position to take advantage of a volley. The last great player to have done that is Borg, he was a total clay ball player, but learned to volley and serve and then won 5 Wimbledon's in a row.

As far as athletes and coaching. I've mentioned this before, but it deserves repeating in this context. Sport Illustrated did an article about the greatest influences in the lives of the Greatest athletes in all sports. The consensus and overwhelming response to the question was: "Total confidence and belief in my coach". This included Jordan and Gretzky. Applied not only Bode, but also to the US ski team overall this is a huge missing factor in the USA skiing.
In the Mahre days Harald Scheonhaaar was the Mahre coach, but he didn't give his time and energy as much to the rest of the Team. A coach has only so much energy and Harald obviously knew which horses to hitch his team to. You notice on the World Cup many of the successful athletes have their own coaches even within the teams. Stenmark had his own coach, so did Girardelli etc. and so on.
Even Lindsey had Thomas to bring her to the stop.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby mborsik » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:45 pm

Well, I guess this thread deserves an update. I cannot think of a video except of HH or Heluva (and Hirscher of course) which is that eye-pleasing (for me at least) as this newly released one from Paul Lorenz:

mborsik
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:38 am

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby HeluvaSkier » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:07 pm

mborsik wrote:Well, I guess this thread deserves an update. I cannot think of a video except of HH or Heluva (and Hirscher of course) which is that eye-pleasing (for me at least) as this newly released one from Paul Lorenz:



To be mentioned in the same post as HH or Paul is an honor. Thank you.

Paul and his colleague Reilly are really stepping up the Aussie D team's game. They are both open minded and motivated... And phenomenal skiers. This is some of the best I think I've seen from Paul.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

www.youtube.com/c/heluvaskier
User avatar
HeluvaSkier
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:29 pm
Location: Western New York

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby Basil j » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:04 am

Paul is very athletic and aesthetically appealing skier for sure.
Basil j
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 am

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby h.harb » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:39 am

He has been working on his skiing, his hand and arm movements are much closer to a "PMTS No Swing" pole tap, he's not as far back and he's getting earlier engagement, which shows in the roundness of his arcs. The real improvement with these changes are good results, less extension and fewer hard hits.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby MarcS » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:08 pm

Harald, I can't see much at fault with his skiing, apart from what you mention, is he a PMTS student?
MarcS
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:42 am

Re: I saw this post on Epic. Paul Lorenz from Australlia

Postby h.harb » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:31 pm

I don't know where he is getting his coaching, but it's not TTS, he is skiing better than before, he's evolved in the right direction, so what I said in my last post stands.

He has been working on his skiing, his hand and arm movements are much closer to a "PMTS No Swing" pole tap, he's not as far back and he's getting earlier engagement, which shows in the roundness of his arcs. The real improvement with these changes are good results, less extension and fewer hard hits.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

PreviousNext

Return to Social Chatting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests