Come on, Man!

Friends get together

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby ToddW » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:04 am

Overheard in an instructor training clinic this morning somewhere in the Rockies:

The left edge is mostly for turning to the left and the right edge is mostly for turning to the right. To use an edge, lean out over the opposite side. Count one vertebra, two vertebrae, three ... to see how much you are bending and edging.


Come on man, skiing works from the feet up -- follow the kinetic chain!
.
ToddW
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: live: Westchester (NY) / ski: Killington

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby JohnMoore » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:52 am

HeluvaSkier wrote:

As promised... To be fair, not all of this one was as bad as some others (although I watched it with the sound off).

Edit to clarify - This video definitely has some good athletic skiing in it. It also has a lot of skiing that could be mistaken for skiing with PMTS movements... however if you watch closely there is very little tipping going on (watch the carving segment), a lot of heel push, and a lot of up movements. All are very refined, but there. The skier is obviously very skilled, but it isn't not PMTS.


There something I quite like about this - he does great imitations of typical beginner/intermediate errors, which takes a special kind of skill in itself. I'll stick with PMTS for the remedies, though.
JohnMoore
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:44 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby ajax » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:34 am

If found this quote on another forum:

My first ski teacher and then director of the ski school was an old polish team member. At that time the stem Christie was very much alive. He believed in final forms in skiing. That every part of the progression had to be mastered correctly to the letter. The snowplow turn had to be done perfectly before the stem Christie could be introduced and so on. I can remember teaching a parallel lesson and "Stan" would ski by toward the end of the lesson and give the class a quick stem Christie lesson.

I think the difference between how many European schools teach and the American schools teach is the focus of learning and mastering solid fundamentals in the European systems. The American culture wants to shortcut the fundamentals and move on to harder terrain without having the skills and technique to ski it in control or safely. That is one reason the direct parallel is so popular. If people want to ski parallel, then why teach them the wedge or wedge Christie? With the amount of groomed runs in many American ski areas, many skiers can progress to black runs quite quickly and get down them satisfactory. Put the same skier on a black un-groomed run, they quickly find out that they are an advanced beginner, with few fundamental skills, on terrain were they don't belong.


I was very thoroughly taught the stem christie. That led me to be a fearful skier in the blacks and even the steeper blues, sometimes struggling to initiate a turn even though I wasn't skiing very fast. The amount of effort it took to throw my body down the hill, or "DIVE!" as my ski instructor taught me, was tremendous considering the fact that I was stemming like crazy to control my speed. It was hard on my knees too.

So glad I found Harald's stuff and PMTS. Now I can ski way faster (or slower) in the steeps with my more control than when I was clinging for dear life with my stem. The knee pain is gone too.
ajax
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:49 pm

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:38 pm

ajax wrote:If found this quote on another forum:

My first ski teacher and then director of the ski school was an old polish team member. At that time the stem Christie was very much alive. He believed in final forms in skiing. That every part of the progression had to be mastered correctly to the letter. The snowplow turn had to be done perfectly before the stem Christie could be introduced and so on. I can remember teaching a parallel lesson and "Stan" would ski by toward the end of the lesson and give the class a quick stem Christie lesson.

I think the difference between how many European schools teach and the American schools teach is the focus of learning and mastering solid fundamentals in the European systems. The American culture wants to shortcut the fundamentals and move on to harder terrain without having the skills and technique to ski it in control or safely. That is one reason the direct parallel is so popular. If people want to ski parallel, then why teach them the wedge or wedge Christie? With the amount of groomed runs in many American ski areas, many skiers can progress to black runs quite quickly and get down them satisfactory. Put the same skier on a black un-groomed run, they quickly find out that they are an advanced beginner, with few fundamental skills, on terrain were they don't belong.


The sad part is that there are many people out there that truly believe that mastering the finals forms of the wedge and stem christie are the way to achieve high level skiing on un-groomed terrain.

Come on, Man!
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

www.youtube.com/c/heluvaskier
User avatar
HeluvaSkier
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:29 pm
Location: Western New York

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby h.harb » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:02 pm

PSIA is big on Stance and balance. What the hell is stance and balance? Anyway? They have no clue, this is just "talk" about static positions. Skiing is about moving, and it's about time they figured out skiing is movements. They never will. Moving with balance is skiing, and they don't know what that means. They don't even know how to start.

Come on, Man!
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby geoffda » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:07 am

From our PSIA friends over on Epic:

One of the best "tips" from a coach I can pass along is to turn both femurs in the direction you want the turn to go and turn 'em as long as you want to keep turning. When you're done, turn 'em the other direction.

COME ON MAN!!
User avatar
geoffda
 
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:42 am
Location: Copper Mountain, CO

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby h.harb » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:44 am

How much do you want to bet he takes a hit and a hard one in bumps and steeps, give up your knees for PSIA, not me! Come On, Man.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby ajax » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:31 am

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/102 ... lation-bad

The above thread is just confusing. I'm sure there's a lot to criticize if only I could figure out what they were saying.
ajax
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:49 pm

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby geoffda » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:07 pm

ajax wrote:http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/102412/is-knee-angulation-bad

The above thread is just confusing. I'm sure there's a lot to criticize if only I could figure out what they were saying.


They are confusing tipping movements with knee angulation. When you tip correctly, you will see an angle between the tibia and the femur. However, just because there is an angle there does not mean that you have knee angulation. Knee angulation is a movement that involves actively rotating the femur to drive the knee inward. This would increase your edge angle as well as bring pressure to the front of the ski--at great expense to the health of your knees. With modern equipment, correct alignment, and proper technique, knee angulation is completely unnecessary. If you want more angle, tip, don't twist!
User avatar
geoffda
 
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:42 am
Location: Copper Mountain, CO

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby HighAngles » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:20 pm

That thread on Epic is full of mind pollution. I feel like just by watching that video it sets my skiing back.

Here's a skiwhh video on youtube that demonstrates the correct movements for short turns. IMO though it really doesn't do justice for just how quick and tight HH can really lay down short turns. I've seen him do it live, but I can't seem to find any videos where it really shows what PMTS is capable of when it comes to short turns. Anyone else have a great PMTS short turn video to share?

User avatar
HighAngles
 
Posts: 792
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:46 am

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby MonsterMan » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:30 pm

If that Hombre Rapido skiing doesn't "hurt your eyes" then you just don't get it.

That skiing makes me sad watching it.

A common thing when it comes to badly executed and inefficient short turns.

Come on Man! (add an appropriate frowny graphic here if you've that type of intellect)
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
User avatar
MonsterMan
 
Posts: 911
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: Surfers' Paradise, Australia

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Carl R » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:57 pm

MonsterMan wrote:If that Hombre Rapido skiing doesn't "hurt your eyes" then you just don't get it.

That skiing makes me sad watching it.

A common thing when it comes to badly executed and inefficient short turns.

Come on Man! (add an appropriate frowny graphic here if you've that type of intellect)


Yea, I know, I don't get it. :mrgreen:
User avatar
Carl R
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:27 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby geoffda » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:09 pm

Carl R wrote:
MonsterMan wrote:If that Hombre Rapido skiing doesn't "hurt your eyes" then you just don't get it.

That skiing makes me sad watching it.

A common thing when it comes to badly executed and inefficient short turns.

Come on Man! (add an appropriate frowny graphic here if you've that type of intellect)


Yea, I know, I don't get it. :mrgreen:


Watch HH's video & compare. What the Aussies are doing are short swing turns. They are steering at the top of the turn (twisting their femurs) instead of tipping to develop the high C. The result is that they don't get any work out of the ski until the bottom of the turn where they have to hit hard to control speed.

Harald is tipping to get onto the new edges which grants him a high C entry where the skis are actually working for him to control speed. Notice how he has even pressure throughout the arc? Notice how early he can release and still not gain speed? He doesn't have to hit at the bottom of the arc to control speed which is why he looks so much smoother.
User avatar
geoffda
 
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:42 am
Location: Copper Mountain, CO

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby h.harb » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:13 pm

Yes, I can't take a hit on my knee, it needs to keep me going for a few more years.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Carl R » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:51 am

geoffda wrote:
Carl R wrote:
MonsterMan wrote:If that Hombre Rapido skiing doesn't "hurt your eyes" then you just don't get it.

That skiing makes me sad watching it.

A common thing when it comes to badly executed and inefficient short turns.

Come on Man! (add an appropriate frowny graphic here if you've that type of intellect)


Yea, I know, I don't get it. :mrgreen:


Watch HH's video & compare. What the Aussies are doing are short swing turns. They are steering at the top of the turn (twisting their femurs) instead of tipping to develop the high C. The result is that they don't get any work out of the ski until the bottom of the turn where they have to hit hard to control speed.

Harald is tipping to get onto the new edges which grants him a high C entry where the skis are actually working for him to control speed. Notice how he has even pressure throughout the arc? Notice how early he can release and still not gain speed? He doesn't have to hit at the bottom of the arc to control speed which is why he looks so much smoother.

I see the difference. I always did.
I still like that APSI Dynamic Short Turns video. It looks fun.
It's a totally different technique to what I'm practicing, but I'm motivation driven to get faster in a course. Not to have a laugh in hero snow on a groomer. But I still like that video. As you said, I just don't get it. :mrgreen:
User avatar
Carl R
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:27 pm
Location: Sweden

PreviousNext

Return to Social Chatting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests