Come on, Man!

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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby desidiver » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:12 pm

h.harb wrote:
i have seen in scuba diving that every organization has their own learning methodologies


You can't use this analogy, every other skiing organization teaches the same methodology. Only difference is the language the manuals are written in. PMTS is the only completely different and biomechanically accurate teaching methodology world wide, on the planet.


got it, i would definitely be interested in learning more and exploring further.
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby h.harb » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:14 pm

All PMTS information is completely available and offered in easy to use and understandable educational materials. Not like TTS. As you can see by many who post here, that some can learn from books and videos, others prefer camps and some like private sessions.
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby am-i-ghetto » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:35 pm

I think he's saying they are the same turn. Come on, Man!

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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby h.harb » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:45 am

The difference may not to be evident to skiers who have been brought up in TTS or taught to view TTS skiers. However if you stop the video at different points, you can see a hugh differences in body angles, my arc radius is much tighter and my turns are finished. The major reasons for the differences are: I'm flexing and tipping out of the old arc and into the new arc. He is extending (rising) and steering, so he has no "high C". My skis are on edge well before the falline, his are on edge at or after the apex, so he has not apex with an angled ski. These differences may seem minor on groomed runs but off piste, they quickly make the difference between survival and enjoyment.
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Re: Come on, Woman!

Postby Bolter » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:37 am

Past achievements, ascribed credibility or polished pins mean very little when it comes coaching. The following is what many skiers are subjected to in a PSIA/TTS USSA type of clinic.

Our host Tony, with a hot twenty year old chick on his arm, hits a home run with a broken leg story introduction of Pam Fletcher.

Pam is floundering at best but with "magic under her feet" she presses on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08-ttGum ... ure=relmfu
Last edited by Bolter on Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby h.harb » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:01 am

Great feedback "be aggressive with your upper body. "Come on, Pam", what a load of horse---t.

Pam doesn't have a clue.
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby dbillo » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:00 pm

A blog entry on the Pam Fletcher clinic, with link to another video clip:
http://blog.timesunion.com/ski/ski-clin ... tcher/140/
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Re: Come on, Woman!

Postby HeluvaSkier » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:53 pm

Bolter wrote:Past achievements, ascribed credibility or polished pins mean very little when it comes coaching. The following is what many skiers are subjected to in a PSIA/TTS USSA type of clinic.

Our host Tony, with a hot twenty year old chick on his arm, hits a home run with a broken leg story introduction of Pam Fletcher.

Pam is floundering at best but with "magic under her feet" she presses on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08-ttGum ... ure=relmfu


I'm sure in her day Pam was a very fast skier, but that is not good coaching. In fact you could write a "what not to do" manual based on that video.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Mac » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:49 pm

Pam has always been an advocate of the wide stance thing. I have video of her from fifteen years ago. Her skiing looked forced and unnatural. This was back in the day that everyone thought that the top racers were skiing in a wide stance, including most instructors. She doesn't get the horizontal vs vertical separation thing that Harald described in great detail in ACBAES 11. And not just Harald, either. Lito echoed the same concept in his Breakthrough on Skis series, as well as every other high level coach that ever amounted to anything that I've studied. Pam didn't get it then, and she still doesn't get it now.
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Mac » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:55 am

But at least she has good taste in skis. Nice turns, by the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS0tcPUw ... re=related
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Bolter » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:25 am



Nice turns? I did not see that part.
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Mac » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:56 am

You didn't like those turns? Come on, man. After all, she was an Olympic skier, and I'm just a run of the mill recreational skier. Who am I to knock her? Maybe we just expect too much.
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Marek » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:12 am

Maybe I am too harsh, but IMO: Pam steers her turns, outside knee drive, a bit wedge entry, too wide stance. Definitely this is not PMTS. Do I like her ? Yes, she is nice person :)
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Skiasaurus Rex » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:27 am

Here's another pam Fletcher video on ski shape and turning-I love the advice 'When in Doubt-widen them out!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1B7zy_L8jM&NR=1

I'm sure, the faithful on this board have taken notice of her preferred ski choice..I guess she can't be all that bad!

Seriously, that sort of skiing is what I run into more from instructors and folks who want to give me advice. It's not the stem-wedge of PSIA, but rather the wide 'athletic' ready stance with heavy knee drive edging and powering through with rotary forces. The Klaus Maier sofa ski school carving video is another example of this.

I'm glad I found HH's models of carving/ turning-which replaced the 'stability' based wide stance, heavy knee drive carving with the 'dynamic' narrower stance and introduces the all-important concept of flexing to release old edges, and to develop foot separation and achieve real carving angles.
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Re: Come on, Man!

Postby Mac » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:33 am

I'll say one thing, she must be in pretty good condition to be able to muscle those Supershapes around like that all day.
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