Come on, Man!

[HeluvaSkier]

I see the difference. I always did.
I still like that APSI Dynamic Short Turns video. It looks fun.
It's a totally different technique to what I'm practicing, but I'm motivation driven to get faster in a course. Not to have a laugh in hero snow on a groomer. But I still like that video. As you said, I just don't get it.

Here is a point to consider. Can one make a turn nearly the same in shape to those shown in the APSI video, while using the same movements that you're practicing in order to be faster in a course? The answer is of course, yes. Why is this important you might ask? I always look at it this way - why would I spend time practicing movements that I don't need? I'd rather spend time gaining extreme proficiency in a proven movement pattern that works everywhere than to try to tailor different movements to different terrain and turns.

[HighAngles]

OK - so after lots of searching and coming up without anything here's my "call out" to Harald. Harald, the request is for you to consider doing a short radius turns video for your next youtube post. I'd love to see the kind of super quick short turns I've seen you crank out. There are some of those on the new Performance video, but nothing in the public domain to show skiers just how well PMTS movements work when you want some really quick turns.

[HeluvaSkier]

I don't have time to watch them all right now, but I'm pretty sure there are some on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/skiwhh

Am I mistaken?

[h.harb]

Carl R wrote:
I see the difference. I always did.
I still like that APSI Dynamic Short Turns video. It looks fun.
It's a totally different technique to what I'm practicing, but I'm motivation driven to get faster in a course. Not to have a laugh in hero snow on a groomer. But I still like that video. As you said, I just don't get it.

The APSI short turn, is not dynamic or is it a quality turn. It's a late hit with a rebound. Don't know anyone but a ski instructor who would aspire to ski like this. That is their best product, and there are many better ways to do this without reverting to becoming a jumping jack. That will never make you faster in a slalom race course. It's a late hit, edge set, rebound, that won't get you through a slalom course. If you make it, you'll be slower. You need a high C, and a release that uses the energy from the ski bend and forces, to be fast. That turn kills all your energy, the ski instructor brain doesn't see the liability in it, because they don't know how the World Cup skier skis.

[HighAngles]

I don't have time to watch them all right now, but I'm pretty sure there are some on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/skiwhh

Am I mistaken?

I went through them again last night and there aren't any that really depict just how quick and tight I've seen HH ski in person. There are some quick turns on the PFS DVD, but that's all mostly shot from the rear. I'd like to see some video shot just like the ASPI video, but of HH ripping off some super quick short turns.

[milesb]

This is a long read, but it is a tts customer's report of his lesson experiences. It's sad, sickening, and all too familiar.
http://www.nayansavla.com/blog/?p=470

[cheesehead]

>>>>We skied down acts and it seems like i am just crouching myself when faced with instability instead of standing up tall and face it <<<

Hard to say exactly what he means, but it sounds to me like he is being instructed to fight any good instinct he has.

[milesb]

Two things really stand out in that blog
1. He obviously was not comfortable at all in the terrain the instructor repeatedly chose. FYI "Acts" is a fairly steep, often icy, short bump run. The bumps never get huge, but they are usually jagged. Mammoth does have a scarcity of good "learning bumps", but there are usually better choices than that run.
In any event the overterraining was a factor in...
2. He was not learning anything! Everything that he recalled was vague and confusing.
And how about this- " My confidence took a beating and so did my skiing, i could tell that there was a degradation and my instructor also confirmed it. I was really glad that when we were talking about how i was going backwards in my skiing, after a while he decided to change the topic so i didn’t feel any worse."

[desidiver]

Two things really stand out in that blog
1. He obviously was not comfortable at all in the terrain the instructor repeatedly chose. FYI "Acts" is a fairly steep, often icy, short bump run. The bumps never get huge, but they are usually jagged. Mammoth does have a scarcity of good "learning bumps", but there are usually better choices than that run.
In any event the overterraining was a factor in...
2. He was not learning anything! Everything that he recalled was vague and confusing.
And how about this- " My confidence took a beating and so did my skiing, i could tell that there was a degradation and my instructor also confirmed it. I was really glad that when we were talking about how i was going backwards in my skiing, after a while he decided to change the topic so i didn’t feel any worse."

I am the guy taking these lessons and the blog posts are mine. its not always possible to put exactly what we learn't into proper words all the time. The post about my confidence taking a beating is from the time when i was recovering from sickness and not feeling 100% ok and it was a factor for sure.

At no time when we skied down "Acts" it was icy or the run was such that any of us were uncomfortable on the terrain.

[Matt]

I am the guy taking these lessons and the blog posts are mine. its not always possible to put exactly what we learn't into proper words all the time. The post about my confidence taking a beating is from the time when i was recovering from sickness and not feeling 100% ok and it was a factor for sure.

At no time when we skied down "Acts" it was icy or the run was such that any of us were uncomfortable on the terrain.

Don't take it personally. The discussion is more targetting the quality, or rather lacking quality, of ski teaching in the US and other places.

Now that you have found PMTS you have a great future ahead of you

[milesb]

Hey, welcome desidiver! Your blog was actually very well written and informative. However, what you described in your lessons are what most of us have experienced (some many times) and found to be of little lasting value. In contrast, what we have found with PMTS is a very specific set of movements that make a definite improvement. And there is a great wealth of written and video material to refer to in addition to lessons. And then there is the feedback available on this forum, which has been invaluable to many here. If you are interested, I'd be happy to ski with you sometime to show you some of what we do here.

[h.harb]

Sometimes you can't, on your own, know, what a real ski lesson experience is, until you actually participate in one.

[desidiver]

its been only a couple of years since i have started skiing so yes i wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I believe that learning can be a life long experience and you can never stop learning.

milesb, i would love to ski with you and get to know more about pmts. i go up to mammoth every weekend. i have seen in scuba diving that every organization has their own learning methodologies and way of approaching things, i am guess its the same with skiing

i am looking forward to learning and exploring more through pmts

[geoffda]

i have seen in scuba diving that every organization has their own learning methodologies and way of approaching things, i am guess its the same with skiing

Using that analogy, it is the difference between learning to dive via a multi-week program run by a respected dive shop, versus learning to dive in a two day course for tourists at a tropical resort.

[h.harb]

i have seen in scuba diving that every organization has their own learning methodologies

You can't use this analogy, every other skiing organization teaches the same methodology. Only difference is the language the manuals are written in. PMTS is the only completely different and biomechanically accurate teaching methodology world wide, on the planet.