Reverse polarization

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Postby midwif » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:56 am

SCSA,
You are a better person than ...many. I was really disgusted by the thread you mentioned earlier which lead to a real PMTS rant-off and quickly progressed to a call for all PMTS advocates to be identified on the site with a special designation. Sound familiar?? Have minorities been asked to wear identifying marks in the past?

I hope that wiser, less threatened leaders on the forum there realize what a slippery slope they are headed to.

Your call to create change from within (epic, yourself, ourselves) is the harder road and trumps my initial feeling of wanting to never participate there again.

There have been times when I have pm'd people to recommend PMTS rather do so openly on a forum. I didn't want to stir the pot up. I will no longer do so, upfront and center from now on.
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Postby milesb » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:09 am

It was made clear that discussions of PMTS were not wanted on Eipcski when Max's report of his lessons with Harald got moved from the instructional section to the trip report section. And then the forwarding link was removed. I think that they are going to eventually institute a no PMTS policy.
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Postby Max_501 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:21 am

SCSA, this theory of Epic being built as a business to be flipped is interesting...could it really be? Wouldn't that piss off a bunch of the supporter members that are paying to support Epic? What about the instructors that spend so much of their free time helping others there?

For the record I don't post on Epic to market HH or PMTS. I do it because I enjoy talking about skiing and PMTS is what I know. I don't know if its the best system or not because I haven't tried any others, I only know that it worked wonders for my family.

If I see someone ask a question about PMTS I'll answer it if I can. Sometimes I'll suggest PMTS to someone looking for books or instruction but I rarely jump into an instructional thread and suggest PMTS as a solution to an issue someone is working on. I'll also correct any mistakes I see with regards to PMTS.

I don't see using Epic as a marketing tool for PMTS (although that is an unintended outcome caused by the huge number of negative posts on PMTS by some of the Epic guys that hate HH and PMTS...if they'd just ignore anything related to PMTS, the Epic PMTS threads would die with relatively few views).
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Postby Ott Gangl » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:05 pm

>>>The best way to advance our cause is by being nice and polite. Max does a great job. So does MilesB,<<<

They are strong advocates but they are not on a mission. Especially Max has had great exchanges with several people and when civility prevailed there were many informative posts. Curiously, in the exchange between Max and BB, when a detractor jumped in they both put him down. Though both had somewhat different ideas of how to accomplish things, lurkers may say they will try both was and see how it works...

It was great to learn from all...

....Ott
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reverse polarization

Postby midwif » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:18 pm

Ott, I truly love the way you segue between all forums with grace. You probably ski the same way.

I found several aspects of that discussion incredibly distressing.
One was the complete paranoia surrounding those who volunteer PMTS info. Phrases such as"another judicial layer needed' and "deal with agents who stifle learning @ "our" technique and instruction forum" and "stealth market' used for any one who invokes the PMTS skiing terminology.
For a site that espouses an 'umbrella' of ski information and technique, PMTS is the bastard child who must not be discussed.
The second distressing suggestion was that PMTS students be "labeled" and distinctly coded for identification. Even Rick (FASTMAN) found this a terrible direction for this supposedly, agnostic site.
I am usually of the 'lets keep peace' and ignore the ill mannered philosophy. But when you come up against out-right, up front stated prejudice, speak up or be damned.
I brought up the yellow star analogy at epic. I am not jewish. But I have seen tattoos left from the time when people were 'labeled'. In ANY FORM in this country we must speak up.
It is just skiing. But left unspoken, it can be more.
This may be deleted. It's not about PMTS per say. I accept that.
But, I am so damn angry, I needed a say.
Kudos to Max for keeping it on even keel and keeping it polite.
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Postby Arkady » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:35 am

Yes, I agree (midwif)!!!

I am no way qualified to judge, but: I came to the U.S. from the former USSR and I am so sick and tired of censoring, I have had enough. If Epic is going to do it... Poor Epic.

I confess, I am lurking there all the time, and I still think it is a good site, but it is mostly good for ski (PSIA) instructors, not for newbies - there is a lot of experienced skiers posting there, egos collide, etc.. I am a newbie, I would like not to argue about credentials, I have NO credentials, I just want to learn from those wh post there. I learn much more here. :D

Why all the vitriol? Why just before a very good and informative discussion between Max and BB, there should be a string of derogatory statements on an Epic PMTS-related thread? I think I have to agree with SCSA - it must be business. It should be :?: SCSA, I hope to ski with you sometimes (when I becme a better skier) and talk. I enjoyed your analysis :)

Thanks to all who keep THIS forum intact. There was a recent provocative thread, which also hurt me a lot. I am no native English speaker myself and I did not like the attacks of an invader who ranted about spelling issues but also forgot how to spell "surprise" correctly himself. He also had a "question" to Harald, which he did not want the others to answer. I always thought that there existed a PM option? Why enter a forum with no intent to communicate?

I tend to think that the recent outbreak of an old PSIA-PMTS feud has a simple explanation: the book (Essentials) is out, and some reaction is expected.

Would you excuse me for possible spelling problems?

Finally, I am leaving tomorrow for Europe (Andorra). Anyone knows about a way to get PMTS instruction or company there? JIC.

Cheers,
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Postby tommy » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:41 am

Arkady and others:

my take on posts where the author starts complaining about spelling etc is to ignore them completely! On internet, most serious people are not fuzzy about language, spelling, phrasing etc, this particular media form (forums) and the way of communication is oftentimes "quick and dirty", it's the contents that matter, not the form.

Thus, just ignore any fool complaining about language usage - they have nothing of value to bring to the pot!

cheers,
Tommy
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