PSIA ramblings and confusion!

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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby Max_501 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:09 am

NoCleverName wrote:And a second "by the way" ... PMTS is being heavily covered, by name and by reference to the "Essentials" book, in the "Technical Models" thread under the ski school subforum. You might argue with this and that, but it's there front and center and few, if anyone, is telling the PMTS posters to go away.

Maybe a re-evaluation is in order.


Are the mods over there editing posts to remove references to PMTS, PMTS books, or PMTS videos?
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby NoCleverName » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:00 am

Max_501 wrote:
Are the mods over there editing posts to remove references to PMTS, PMTS books, or PMTS videos?


A search for the string "PMTS" produced 69 hits; posts implying PMTS methods and teachings are in far greater numbers. So there is no scorched earth policy even though direct reference might be actively discouraged for all I know. I think if you present a viewpoint without actively denigrating an opposing viewpoint, you will be allowed to post pretty much anything.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby Max_501 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:40 am

NoCleverName wrote:A search for the string "PMTS" produced 69 hits; posts implying PMTS methods and teachings are in far greater numbers.


That is fine but you didn't answer the question.

Are the mods over there editing posts to remove references to PMTS, PMTS books, or PMTS videos?

NoCleverName wrote:I think if you present a viewpoint without actively denigrating an opposing viewpoint, you will be allowed to post pretty much anything.


Todd and Heluva appear to disagree.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby LiquidFeet » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:47 pm

I posted something on PugSki about the Alignment Tech Course Manual and added a link for buying it on the HSS website. They took the post down and pm'd me that direct links encouraging sales were forbidden.

In response, I asked if I posted some details the book and described it positively, would that be allowed, and was told yes. So I posted something recommending the book, and I said the book was by Harald Harb. The mods had no problem with that, and it's still there.

I've also posted other stuff mentioning PMTS and it's still there. Just checked.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby NoCleverName » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:27 pm

Max_501 wrote:That is fine but you didn't answer the question.

Are the mods over there editing posts to remove references to PMTS, PMTS books, or PMTS videos?


Obviously I did answer the question since there were 69 hits referencing PMTS, so they did not "remove references to PMTS". You seem to be pretty savvy with search, so I don't see why you couldn't verify this yourself as well as the nature of the posts (which include books and a few vids) by doing the search yourself (which can be done without an account).

Does it spoil the narrative that compromise is afoot?
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby Roundturns » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:31 pm

I think it's great PMTS has enjoyed success, and continues to grow and prosper by attracting serious motivated skiers. I am an outsider regarding ski instruction but from observation at resorts such as Vail where I ski the most outside of my local hill here in Pa., the people taking lessons aren't taking lessons in an effort to seriously change their skiing.

The ski school wants their"guests" to have a pleasurable experience and not be confronted or deal with the reality that their skiing is pretty bad. These people aren't going to pay $900 a day for a private lesson to learn that they are bad skiers.
Nor are they likely to want to do the repetitive drills necessary to learn correct movement patterns.
As for Heluva , I had the pleasure of skiing a couple hours years ago at Holiday Valley. Impressive to say the least and he has only gotten better. A testimony of incorporating PMTS into his skiing and diligent training.

He always posted video and endured "pot shots" from critics that never showed us their skiing. The other thing is Heluva is skiing a lot of the time on a "crappy" snow surface and getting great angles. Anyway, I always enjoyed what he shared with us with his videos, and the fact he made himself a great skier and reached higher levels by incorporating PMTS speaks for itself.

I can't ski like that, but sure recognize superior skiing when I see it.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby Vailsteve » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:45 pm

Roundturns wrote:
I can't ski like that, but sure recognize superior skiing when I see it.


Yup..I can’t ski like Greg either...that dude can certainly ski!! Roundturns, if you get back to Vail, look me up...we FINALLY have some snow!!! And more snow coming Friday. Sunup Bowl should be opening this weekend; China Bowl and Blue Sky are getting close. Vail might finally be turning into Vail...

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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:53 pm

Thanks Roundturns. I would love to have you up again to ski at Holimont or the Valley. The snow is absolutely incredible this year.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:10 pm

The ski school wants their"guests" to have a pleasurable experience and not be confronted or deal with the reality that their skiing is pretty bad. These people aren't going to pay $900 a day for a private lesson to learn that they are bad skiers.
Nor are they likely to want to do the repetitive drills necessary to learn correct movement patterns.


We don't get and don't want those kind of skiers, thank god because they are just a pain in the ass. We have good clients who are motivated by "repetitive drills". As far as telling people they are bad skiers, where did you get the idea we do that?

We only tell people the truth, you are probably "hopefully", referring to PSIA instructors, "Who can't handle the truth about being bad skiers!!!?"
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby skijim13 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:44 am

One of the marketing tools of the PSIA is fun for the student. I wonder how much fun it is to ski with poor skills when on a powder day or crud day on the mountain you have to go in and sit and bar complaining about the conditions being bad. We have a run on our mountain called Main Street that turns into piles of deep snow and crud latter in the day it is fun to ski down it using PMTS skills and watch the other skiers looking as us ski through it with a narrow stance when they are having yard sales using their wide stance, and leg steering skills.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:27 am

NoCleverName wrote:Obviously I did answer the question since there were 69 hits referencing PMTS, so they did not "remove references to PMTS".


All your results tell us is that they didn't remove all references to PMTS in THOSE posts. That doesn't imply that discussion of PMTS is welcome and free of edits. In fact both Heluvaskier and Todd are saying otherwise and Liquidfeet stated they did edit her post to remove a link to one of the books.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby LiquidFeet » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:19 pm

As I mentioned upthread, the moderators removed my post because it looked like I was promoting sales, not because it was sales for PMTS material. They allowed me to repost it without the link.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:27 pm

LiquidFeet wrote:As I mentioned upthread, the moderators removed my post because it looked like I was promoting sales, not because it was sales for PMTS material. They allowed me to repost it without the link.


Thank you for sharing your experience which appears to confirm the anti PMTS bias that Heluva and Todd discussed earlier. Isn't it interesting that they would ask you to remove a link when the purpose was to help interested readers avoid the hassle of locating the book on their own? Meanwhile that forum has many other posts with links to NON-PMTS products and services.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby HeluvaSkier » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:35 am

Max_501 wrote:Isn't it interesting that they would ask you to remove a link when the purpose was to help interested readers avoid the hassle of locating the book on their own? Meanwhile that forum has many other posts with links to NON-PMTS products and services.


When I pointed this out, much more bluntly and less eloquently than you have here, I was told "stop, or else". IMO... not worth wasting energy getting bent out of shape over... Disappointing that is how they want to run things... sure... impact on my life... ZERO.
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Re: PSIA ramblings and confusion!

Postby h.harb » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:40 pm

They are running scared!!!! They are threatened by PMTS or camps, our You Tube videos our selling videos, (doing well in China) . Because they know inwardly they have no leg to stand on. And that's because they advocate a two footed, wide stance. If they allowed PMTS information and links they would have to start defending their teaching and outcome based system. They sure don't want to go there, it's dead end.
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