Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby theorist » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:23 pm

The Loveland Ski Club recently posted a couple of videos of Shiffrin doing gate training, drilling, and freeskiing (see https://www.facebook.com/LovelandSkiClu ... _permalink)

The Feb 6 gate-training video is just beautiful to watch -- her movements are so fluid.

The Jan 30 video (orange jacket, black pants) is also interesting, but I'm puzzled -- towards the end, starting at 1:09, when she's freeskiing, it seems like she's extending in every transition (the opposite of what she does in the gate training video, and in her races). Can someone tell me if my observation is correct and, if so, why she would be doing that? The conventional advice, given to all athletes, is to maintain technique discipline at all times, even when you can get away with abandoning it, since to do otherwise compromises neuromuscular training—and Shiffrin has a reputation for being quite disciplined.
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby krazzy legs » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Maybe copy guy @ end of second video & do turns in tuck to get rid of up movement
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby cheesehead » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:22 am

It is energy created by the release. I am not sure it is an actual "power release" but it creates that sling shot type effect
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby gaku » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:23 pm

Hard to realise how much force there are in those releases because her upper body is complimenting those feet so well. Dreamy-smooth skiing.
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby arothafel » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:07 pm

Just amazing....

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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby blackthorn » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:26 pm

And she won at the Crans-Montana slalom two days ago, her first FIS race since returning from injury. In the second run it was getting a bit foggy and the snow looked to be softening a lot.
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby skiffie » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:59 am



speaking of the trans montana, here's a video from it. I have ZERO MA skills, but I'm curious... on some of the turns (more of the ones to the left, and especially the one at 0:08) it looks like there's some extending / pushing / knee driving going on? Am I seeing this totally wrong? If I am, if someone wouldn't mind explaining me what I'm actually seeing that'd be awesome :)
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby Max_501 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:46 am

skiffie wrote:I have ZERO MA skills, but I'm curious... on some of the turns (more of the ones to the left, and especially the one at 0:08) it looks like there's some extending / pushing / knee driving going on? Am I seeing this totally wrong? If I am, if someone wouldn't mind explaining me what I'm actually seeing that'd be awesome :)


First, sometimes racers use a skating type of movement in the first few gates to get up to speed. That said, at :08 I don't see the the movements you are asking about so not sure what you are seeing.

Second, it takes years and years of work to be able to accurately MA a skier at this level. And even then if you can't make the movements yourself there may be a misunderstanding in what you are seeing. For example, if you can't ski a WC SL course in a similar manner you have little basis for understanding all the movements the skier is making and WHY she is making them. The good news is that HH has already broken down all of the Essential movements used by WC racers so we don't need to spin our wheels attempting to do it ourselves.
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby skiffie » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:14 am

Max_501 wrote:
skiffie wrote:I have ZERO MA skills, but I'm curious... on some of the turns (more of the ones to the left, and especially the one at 0:08) it looks like there's some extending / pushing / knee driving going on? Am I seeing this totally wrong? If I am, if someone wouldn't mind explaining me what I'm actually seeing that'd be awesome :)


First, sometimes racers use a skating type of movement in the first few gates to get up to speed. That said, at :08 I don't see the the movements you are asking about so not sure what you are seeing.

Second, it takes years and years of work to be able to accurately MA a skier at this level. And even then if you can't make the movements yourself there may be a misunderstanding in what you are seeing. For example, if you can't ski a WC SL course in a similar manner you have little basis for understanding all the movements the skier is making and WHY she is making them. The good news is that HH has already broken down all of the Essential movements used by WC racers so we don't need to spin our wheels attempting to do it ourselves.


I suppose it's more accurately at :09 - she's turning to the left, and it looks like the right ski is being pushed on and pushed out.

don't worry I don't expect to be able to MA WC skiing! :lol: I was actually wondering if I was misunderstanding what I'm seeing, hence the question. :) Similar to what OP's question was about being puzzled I suppose.
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby gaku » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:40 pm


I suppose it's more accurately at :09 - she's turning to the left, and it looks like the right ski is being pushed on and pushed out.


She's not pushing or extending out of the turn, but during it to maintain snow contact after an agressive float. Look at the amount of flexion she has in transition, the amount of foot pullback in the high C right before outside leg extension. She's letting that outside leg get long after angles have been achieved before the falline. If you slow down the video you will see that she transfers balance to the LTE of the uphill ski and lifts the old stance ski to release.

Here's another video of her training before her WC return. Got to appreciate that speed. Look at her hip CA. The guy in the background, "WOW", sums it up pretty well. :lol:

Edit:
Last edited by gaku on Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby skiffie » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:06 am

gaku wrote:She's not pushing or extending out of the turn, but during it to maintain snow contact after an agressive float. Look at the amount of flexion she has in transition, the amount of foot pullback in the high C right before outside leg extension. She's letting that outside leg get long after angles have been achieved before the falline. If you slow down the video you will see that she transfers balance to the LTE of the uphill ski and lifts the old stance ski to release.


ok I was with you halfway but then I just got confused, so I took a screenshot:

Image

I'm not seeing foot pullback here... I did on the other turns, but not on this one. this looks like the opposite to me?

re transferring balance to the LTE of the uphill ski, I do see that she was initially riding that uphill LTE edge, but wouldn't that be the wrong edge to be riding during this turn as it should be the free foot? it also looks like what should be the stance ski was up in the air and then came down hard, during the turn, BEFORE the release.

However I do remember Jay telling me during camp that expert skiers can ski on the uphill LTE and do use that as a tactic sometimes, so maybe that's what I am seeing here - no clue.
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby blackthorn » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:40 pm

Skiffie says "I'm not seeing foot pullback here... I did on the other turns, but not on this one. this looks like the opposite to me?"

Based on what I have learned from PMTS, and from a recreational skier's armchair:-

This is a but a single turn and single screenshot from the world's current best female slalom WC skier. I've slowed the turn down frame by frame. I think that she is in the very early stages of release and balance transfer. The inside foot/ski movement will likely be very much what she wants and controlled closely, to allow to position herself for the next turn. ie I don't think she is making a mistake! There did appear to be a lot of "pullback" , as judged by inside knee flexion, earlier in the turn. Then also look at the knee flexion as she establishes into the next turn.

Short answer = Shriffrin is pulling back, and just as much as she needs to.

In PMTS foot pull-back as I understand refers to the amount and duration of effort one has to put in, mainly knee flexion using hamstrings. The resulting effect on the how closely the skis/boots line up fore/aft will depend on what is needed for any particular turn. In recreational skiing many skiers are just letting their inside ski drift forward with any number of negative consequences.
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby HeluvaSkier » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:05 pm

This discussion is a prime example of why it is dangerous to MA WC-level skiing without understanding the speed and energy present in the turns as well as the movements required to stay in a course.

The right footer at 0:09 is a weighted release resulting from how much energy is being released from the old turn. The right leg is extending/reaching to maintain contact with the snow—and note it is the tip of the ski that comes into contact with the snow first—there’s your pullback. There is no pushing or extension.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby skiffie » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:44 pm

Yes I certainly didn't think she was making a mistake either! Nor would I even try to MA what's going on, but I was curious since I just didn't understand what I was seeing at all. Hence all the question marks in my post :)

I'm going to go watch it again in slow motion watching out for what Helluva and blackthorn said :)
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Re: Shiffrin videos from Loveland Ski Club

Postby blackthorn » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:48 pm

please take little notice of what I have said unless it is endorsed by someone who knows!! - I was only offering suggestions not advice.
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