Ski and boots on the world cup

Re: Ski and boots on the world cup

Postby mcrt » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:49 am

How much does a boot mold cost?.
I once heard they were very expensive but i have forgotten the number.
What i find surprising is that a guy like Hirscher has to make do with "the" boot they give him and then grind,stretch and router it so he can win.
I do not know how much $ is involved in the ski racing/marketing world but i would expect the top 10 guys and gals to get at least some choice in boot designs within their brands.
From what you write i understand they all get the same basic race boot model and then experiment with setup.Is money the reason?.
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Re: Ski and boots on the world cup

Postby Louis » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:23 am

Harald, I think you once wrote that Head boots are weak in slalom and for example Nordica boots working much better in slalom. Why is that?
When watching the slalom in Santa Catarina I also saw quite a few skiers skiing on Fischer. Do they finally have wizards on the team, or did Fischer boots get better?
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Re: Ski and boots on the world cup

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:29 pm

Louis wrote:When watching the slalom in Santa Catarina I also saw quite a few skiers skiing on Fischer. Do they finally have wizards on the team, or did Fischer boots get better?


A lot of the guys on Fischer had pretty bad alignment... always soft. I think the reason you see a lot of technical skiers on Fischer is their SL skis are really good (they must have 25-30% of the SL field)... now if they would only train people how to set up their boots properly they would have a better showing.

Get ready for Harald to tell us how much he LOVES Fischer boots. :lol: :mrgreen:
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Re: Ski and boots on the world cup

Postby thatguy_onthehill » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:54 pm

Louis wrote:Do they finally have wizards on the team, or did Fischer boots get better?


The Fischer boots have been improving, at least the WC level models. For example, many of the skiers using them on the WC have a boot with a modified or zero abduction. They have recently introduced a zero abduction model in the US but on a very limited basis and they will probably go further with it next season (at least to the FIS level racers). The other big change has been the vacuum system. If correctly fitted, these boots are amazingly comfortable compared to other race-level products. For me, it took out the variable of emerging pressure points that always seemed a moving target during the ski season. Now, I could focus much more on alignment causes and effects instead of pain avoidance. I also found that the set-up of the boot got easier to master (although this is always a bit of a work in progress).

Fischer did have a lot of bugs early on (I broke four pairs from the first two years with less than 10 days of skiing on each) and there are still issues with some stress points, but the overall boot integrity is much improved. That being my opinion of them, Fischer has a huge issue with many dealers that don’t really know how to set-up and operate the molding system and this can cause some pretty unfavorable results (and hurting their brand). Beyond that, the fitter still needs to be committed to understanding a skiers individual biomechanics; the vacuum system has nothing to do with setting up for proper balance, stance, or alignment to achieve PMTS skiing movements. It simply creates a really good fitting boot around the chosen foot bed, ramp angle, cuff set, etc. All of this still remains in the hands of the fitter and in the knowledge of the skier. As HH pointed out, proper alignment what people pay him for. :)

I might also add that one reason you see so many athletes on Fischer boots at the WC level is a result of some pretty aggressive marketing in Europe ($$$ do motivate equipment choices by young athletes). :roll:
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Re: Ski and boots on the world cup

Postby theorist » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:31 pm

Here's what I've always wondered about the Fischers and their abducted stance: Suppose a skier has limited ROM for CA due to limited hip internal rotation ROM (but plenty of external rotation ROM). If you abduct the foot by x degrees, does that give the skier x more degrees of CA, simply because while the max CA relative to the foot is unchanged (at least to zeroth order), the max CA relative to the ski is now x degrees greater?
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Re: Ski and boots on the world cup

Postby speedcontrol » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:15 am

h.harb wrote:I was just getting started, I have not covered Salomon, Fischer, Lange, volkl, blizzard, nordica etc etc. I'll get there, so far, we some good answers or questions, they will guide the direction.

Is it coming soon ?
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Re: Ski and boots on the world cup

Postby gaku » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:43 am

speedcontrol wrote:
h.harb wrote:I was just getting started, I have not covered Salomon, Fischer, Lange, volkl, blizzard, nordica etc etc. I'll get there, so far, we some good answers or questions, they will guide the direction.

Is it coming soon ?


Count me in as another very interested listener.

EDIT: nice post-count speedcontrol ;p
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Re: Ski and boots on the world cup

Postby blackthorn » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:03 pm

Theorist - What you say seems correct, but I suspect that the abduction effects on forefoot, ankle, and lower leg movements and the way they translate further up the kinetic chain have more importance than a simple hip rotation limit effect on CA, some of which can be ameliorated by spinal rotation.
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