Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby Carl R » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:13 pm

Thanks! :)
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:14 am

Hi Carl,
You have received some great direction from Harald, Max and JB. I'd encourage you to take a good look at your skiing on your SL skis and compare it to your skiing on the 35m skis. You will notice that your weaknesses on the shorter radius are amplified by the 35m boards. A big learning point for you is going to be differentiating between tipping and hip dumping. This is a process that will take you back to low edge-angle basics before you can progress forward (drills like garlands, engaging and releasing drills, one-foot balance drills, etc.). Remember, if you cannot balance on a tipped edge, you will not be able to build the foundation required to properly pilot a 35m ski. Keep us posted on your progress as you are able to get more video.
Cheers.
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:34 pm

Carl just look at your avatar compared to Helluva skiers. Your upper body is leaning, his is counter acted. This will become a real issue on 35 meter skis. Helluva is right on, a 35 meter ski is like putting a microscope to your skiing. Even going out after skiing a slalom ski, to a 18 meter ski (has to be 65mm under foot) tells you immediately what you are not doing right. I don't think skiers really understand how much training and years, are involved in skiing like the video I put up of the racer on 35m skis?
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby Carl R » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:57 pm

I was skiing my B5i 162 11m this morning and i found some of my lost counteraction. I have also got my weight more forward and out. I believe I can take some of it to the 35's. I have started loading the tips more, but I think my timing needs to be dialed. I hope I can get a new video tomorrow from a slightly steeper slope.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:08 pm

Carl R wrote: I hope I can get a new video tomorrow from a slightly steeper slope.


Cool. Keep it coming. Get video on a less steep slope too. If you're working on new movements, they will be easier to execute on terrain where speed control is not an issue. I spent a solid season skiing predominantly green terrain while I was learning the absolute basics and I still spend many afternoons on green terrain reinforcing what I already know and working on movements that I am deficient in.
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby DougD » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:07 am

HeluvaSkier wrote:Cool. Keep it coming. Get video on a less steep slope too. If you're working on new movements, they will be easier to execute on terrain where speed control is not an issue. I spent a solid season skiing predominantly green terrain while I was learning the absolute basics and I still spend many afternoons on green terrain reinforcing what I already know and working on movements that I am deficient in.

+1

After a week at camp, that's exactly where I am now... and probably for this entire season. Moving up to more challenging terrain undermines learning and rehearsing new movements. When we're concentrating on not losing control, we can't relax, focus on and trust unfamiliar/uncomfortable movements. Doing so while also moving up to more challenging skis is doubly difficult.
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby Carl R » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:43 am

So this is from a slightly steeper slope a few days later. I'm trying to get more pressure on the tips, more inside leg tipping, CA and CB. I think my timing looks a little off and the arm movements somewhat exaggerated.
I see that I lift off on heels last turn, but i think I make tip contact a frame or two later. How bad is it?

SG training in 2 weeks :)


I couldn't get any video of short ski turns. Family wholeheartedly uninterested in my videos. ;)
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby geoffda » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:29 pm

h.harb wrote:Carl just look at your avatar compared to Helluva skiers. Your upper body is leaning, his is counter acted. This will become a real issue on 35 meter skis. Helluva is right on, a 35 meter ski is like putting a microscope to your skiing. Even going out after skiing a slalom ski, to a 18 meter ski (has to be 65mm under foot) tells you immediately what you are not doing right. I don't think skiers really understand how much training and years, are involved in skiing like the video I put up of the racer on 35m skis?


Max_501 wrote:Get on something with a radius of 12-14M and work on tipping and inside foot management with a strong focus on establishing balance on the outside ski. Once you have that nailed move up to a 24M GS ski and work on the same thing. Keep in mind that it took the best racers in the world a season or two to figure out how to carve a 35 like it was a GS ski.


HeluvaSkier wrote:Hi Carl,
You have received some great direction from Harald, Max and JB. I'd encourage you to take a good look at your skiing on your SL skis and compare it to your skiing on the 35m skis. You will notice that your weaknesses on the shorter radius are amplified by the 35m boards. A big learning point for you is going to be differentiating between tipping and hip dumping. This is a process that will take you back to low edge-angle basics before you can progress forward (drills like garlands, engaging and releasing drills, one-foot balance drills, etc.). Remember, if you cannot balance on a tipped edge, you will not be able to build the foundation required to properly pilot a 35m ski. Keep us posted on your progress as you are able to get more video.
Cheers.


This is no longer about simply making your skiing better; you have to have a deep understanding of how a ski works and specifically what you are trying to accomplish. That is, what are your skis not doing that you would like them to do? If the answer to that question is not obvious, you'll want to go back to slalom skis and revisit what it means to make a truly carved, decreasing radius turn. At this level it isn't enough to just be able to make the movements; it is about advanced balance, integration and understanding what you need to be doing in every moment of the arc. Much of this is stuff you have to figure out on your own--in an environment where you stand a reasonable chance of success. Honestly, I don't think you are doing yourself any favors by trying to ski a 35m ski. This isn't just a case of you not doing enough with your movements; most of what you are doing exhibits significant flaws. Honestly, the video suggests that you are not yet a strong enough skier to be attempting this ski. As others have said, you likely need to back way up in your skiing. If you post up some video of short radius turns on SL skis, I'm pretty sure we'll still see the basic problems that are preventing you from handling a 35m ski. Either you are lacking in fundamentals altogether or you have them up to a point, but they fall apart under duress. Whichever the problem, you need to pin-point your weaknesses and get them addressed long before strapping on the 35m skis. Harald is spot on in his comments about the difficulties in simply moving from SL to 18m radius. I've never attempted to ski a 35m ski, but I've experienced going from SL to 18-20-something radius GS skis and it is pretty easy to see how increasing radius just magnifies the level of difficulty. Ideally, you'll want a level of understanding that will allow you to self-coach the transition.
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby Carl R » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:58 am

These are older clips but I probably ski similar.

#1 mellow slope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHGWiL8NKG0

#2 steeper slope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv3MPIBz5cM
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby DougD » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:08 am

Extension to release seems clearly evident in the "mellow" video. Harald explained above that this will prevent 35m skis from turning in a controlled way.

To me, this looks like your SMIM.The other posters are far more qualified and may offer better suggestions.
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby HeluvaSkier » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:53 am

DougD wrote:To me, this looks like your SMIM.The other posters are far more qualified and may offer better suggestions.


A skier who cannot make turns using balanced tipping has nothing to release.
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby DougD » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:29 pm

HeluvaSkier wrote:A skier who cannot make turns using balanced tipping has nothing to release.

Thanks for the correction (and shame on me for MA-ing video at 6am on my phone). :oops:

Geoffda and Max nailed it even before seeing the short turn videos.
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby Max_501 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:13 pm

Here's the MA from Jay (Black Level PMTS Coach) and I back in 2012. We can see the same things with the GS skis but magnified. If you want to bend a GS ski you have to get off the inside ski.

Max_501 wrote:Carl, excellent job of flexing the inside leg and getting the inside foot out of the way! If you worked on inside foot tipping so it kept up with the inside leg flexion you would have more control over the turn. As it is, the inside foot gets out of the way and then the hips fall into the new turn (this is what others are seeing as hip dumping), with the inside foot following rather than leading the hips.

On a gentle slope work on inside foot tipping range of motion. Keep in mind that flexing will increase the tipping range of motion.

Also work on pulling the inside foot back and holding it closer to the stance boot/leg to increase balance and help minimize falling onto the inside ski.



I know I sound like a broken record but...

Inside foot management = pull back to stance boot, pull in to stance boot, tip to LTE

Spend some time working on the Super phantom with touch-tilt:

As in a regular super phantom, transfer balance to LTE of the uphill ski. Then, touch the inside edge of the lifted, dowhnill ski to the inside ankle rivet of the stance boot ("inside foot arch touches outside foot ankle"). Keep it touching while tipping the free foot further toward its LTE. Don't let that free foot touch the snow until the very end of the turn. VERY IMPORTANT STEP! At the end of the turn, when the free foot touches the snow on its LTE, immediately pick up the new free foot, and touch-tilt the new stance boot.

When learning, you can begin with keeping the tip of the free ski on the snow, but the goal is to keep the whole ski lifted throughout the turn which is a true test of your ability to balance on the outside ski.

Teach the Pole Press drill (pages 68 - 69 of book 2) to one of your friends and ask them to spend a few minutes working with you so you get the feel for the muscular effort needed to keep the inside foot under control.
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby geoffda » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:58 am

HeluvaSkier wrote:A skier who cannot make turns using balanced tipping has nothing to release.

This (and Max_501's latest). More to the point, anyone who is ready to be on a 35m ski would not need us to tell them that there is no tipping going on...
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Re: Getting r<=30-35 to turn?

Postby Max_501 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:28 am

Carl, have you worked through the progression in Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier Books 1 and 2?
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