Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby jbotti » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:25 am

If you want to see the WC racer with the tightest stance skiing well watch Stefano Gross in the slalom at Adelboden yesterday which he won. Conditions late in the second run were brutal with huge ruts and a course that saw rain followed by snow the night before. His stance is a great PMTS model.

Here is a link for the second run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt3CJF7YKwY
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby WNYSkier » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Agreed, but best to watch it with the sound off. The commentator gaffs will distract the viewer from some great skiing on one of the toughest SL hills on the WC.

To paraphrase:

"He somehow gets away with a low hip position, he must have amazing core strength."

"He is skiing with a narrow stance on the flat, but he will have to go to a wider stance on the steep to get the edge angles and the grip."

What a disappointment. I don't have access to Universal, but am able to watch the Eurosport feed live and their commentary is vastly superior.
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:06 pm

Totally agree on both counts. One of the best slalom runs I've seen all year. Even the great ones have a bad say. Hirscher was leaning in and rotating. He was dropping and letting his inside hand get behind his hip, which you rarely see.

The commentary on Universal sports by Doug Lewis could not be more wrong. Gross's stance didn't get wider in the steeps, he just got more vertical separation. Lewis doesn't like anyone who skis with a narrow stance. Most of the top guys are narrow, but he really hates the really narrow stance like Gross. Narrow is faster of course, it also is quicker from edge to edge. I don't know why it has taken Gross this long to score big; he and DeVille have been on the edge for some time.

The commentary is so weak, and understanding so poor, they have had to revert to their big technical description which is now, exclusively, "about style". Amazing how they know nothing about technical skiing. They are always referring to "getting early pressure" which is the last thing you want. You want early edge angles, not pressure.
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:56 pm

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com/2015/01/slalom-skiing-with-narrow-stance-is-not.html
If Doug Lewis only knew what he was talking about, coaches around the country might even begin to understand biomechanics. But the problem doesn't start with Doug, it's USSA and the US Ski Team coaches. They know no better.
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby geoffda » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:38 pm

Wow! Adelboden--SLAYED! That was some amazing skiing!
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby theorist » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:49 pm

If you download that video and go through it frame-by-frame, you'll see several clear O-frames. I've only seen Hirscher actually show an O-frame when the next gate is the start of a flush and he thus has to make a very quick direction change -- which can be seen in Gross's run as well:

Image

But Gross, in addition, shows O-frames for the regular gates:

Image

I was also impressed by how Thaler handled the last steep section at the end of his first run.
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:50 pm

.03 between the first three places. One wrong edge, one slight rotation, one push-off more or less, one wrong breath, and you are the 2nd loser.

"O" frame a PMTS original. Narrow stance, another PMTS original. Flex as opposed to extend, you get it, well it goes on and on, yet the blind don't see it. The "O" frame creates the fastest transition for the hips to the new angles. Pivoting only creates hard edge sets, late pressuring and time loss.

It was a great run!
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:05 pm

I said 5 years ago, if I could coach any team, it's the Italians, they had the most talent. They make big mistakes, and made mistakes with boots and with technique, but regardless that, the talent shows through.

Look at how long Gross holds his counter-acting in the large frame.
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby jbotti » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:08 pm

On the Doug Lewis front, he probably hadn't skied slalom or GS in his last ten years of ski racing and all of his racing was on straight skis. Its obvious that he has never spent the time to understand modern technical skiing. Clearly the producers view having a name of sorts ex ski racer over someone that can actually analyze what is occurring on the snow. But we also know that the producers wouldn't know the difference anyway so it sure seems unlikely that any of this is going to change. Personally I am just thrilled that I get same day coverage of all the races. If you ignore the commentary it's great!

Nice freeze frames on the O frames Theorist!

At first it looked like Gross was no longer skiing Fischer boots (which have caused the Italian technical skiers so many issues) but ski racing says he is skiing Volkl's with Fischer boots still (which are clearly black and red). Maybe this boot doesn't have an abducted stance?
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:38 pm

Those are really "Tecnica" boots, with Volkl skis, which are really Nordica boots. This combination is used by a number of WC skiers.

Image
As far as Doug Lewis, he's annoying, so poor at the technical understanding side. But John you are right, the producers could care less. Most skiers watching think he's giving them good information, that's the sad part, many coaches and kids are being educated with this crap. That's why it's so disturbing and detrimental to American skiing.

The US Ski Team is so out of it, they don't recognize these issues are damaging their future. If you can't analyze a good turn from a poor one, you aren't concerned about Doug Lewis is doing to skiing. Lewis will negatively influence a whole generation of US skiers. And we wonder why we don't have anything in the development pipeline. It's easy to figure out. They used Ron LeMaster for decades, where did that get them????

Now they have Ron Kipp, who is totally PSIA, now Mike Rogan is a Downhill coach. Does anyone have any clothes for the emperor, he's getting cold.
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby deicreo » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:54 am

I remember when Harald few years back was calling racers like: Fenninger, Brem and Deville with his team mate Gross to be the possible winners in the WC circuit.
With the recent win of Gross we can say that they all have done it. Fenninger had even been dominant in speeds at some point.
Whem I look at those captures (thanks Theorist) I am not afraid to say that this win had been described in details long time ago.
This performance of Gross is simply one of the best afirmation of what PMTS is all about.
Hope that Deville will come back to his days of glory. I like this run, apart from technique, scenery makes it special:
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby h.harb » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:18 am

Thanks for reminding us that these are skiers I've watched for years and saw even called their brilliance. For many reasons like you and John point out their greatness was curtailed. I see the same with the Swedish Team, so much talent yet no results commensurate of their talent.. I don't know what happened to Deville this year, he is either injured or retired.
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby jbotti » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:48 am

By the way, yesterday at Wengen I got a very good look at Gross's boots and they are indeed Tecnica. Not sure why the continue to list them as Fischer. I assume its because he's under contract with Fischer. Actually they listed Gross as Volkl/Tecnica/Marker yesterday (but listed with Fischer boots at Adelboden).
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby theorist » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:29 am

Now that Jarden has acquired Dalbello (deal signed 12/23/14), I'm wondering if all Volkl/Marker skiers be required to move to Dalbellos (or at least boots that say "Dalbello") as soon as their old boot contracts expire. I've been told this is SOP with the other brands that own all three equipment components (skis+bindings+boot), i.e., Atomic, Salomon, Rossi, and Head. Indeed, this was probably an important part of their decision to acquire Dalbello, since it dilutes the promotional impact of a Volkl win when the skier is on a competitor's boot.
Last edited by theorist on Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stefano Gross at Adelboden

Postby jbotti » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:38 am

Harald thinks quite highly of their race boot so it might be an uptick for many of their racers.
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