Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby h.harb » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:06 pm

Besides Hirscher, Benni Raich was amazing at 36 years old, 1 hundredth off the podium, behind Alexi Pintaurault, skiing as well as he's ever skied. Atomic has a true, new laminate ski, this is making a difference. I don't think Hirscher would have skied as well on his last season's GS ski, on that ice. Ligety was leaning, slipping and skidding. This is a big victory if it keeps up, he could be the first 4 time in a row overall world cup winner. He's the only legit threat to catch Stenmark's record for wins.


Marcel Hirscher uses a new ski design, strength, perfect line, and technique for a very difficult hill, to win the first World Cup Race.

Biggest technical difference between Ted and Marcel in this run was, Hirscher comes back over the outside ski with his upper body at the falline, (as shown here Facebook photo) Ted has far more upper body torso inclination and therefore rides a lower rounder line below the gates.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby DougD » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:15 am

"Biggest technical difference between Ted and Marcel in this run was, Hirscher comes back over the outside ski with his upper body at the falline..."

Harald, would you attribute this to an active effort to increase CB during the high C phase of the turn (while also holding solid CA)? Or...?
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby h.harb » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:00 pm

Prep CB in the high C, do it in the load phase.
This skiing by Hirscher isn't comparable to what normal skiers are able to do. You have to put it in context first to use it for recreational level skiing.. That's why I wrote "Essentials of Skiing".
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby DougD » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:54 pm

Thanks. I've no plans to challenge Hirscher this season, lol, but your insights into the movements made by the best skiers are helpful even for us PMTS students. "Essentials" is on my to-do list.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby h.harb » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:57 pm

Thanks Doug, PMTS is based and built on things people like Hirscher do, but the forces, timing and energy they produce is totally different. PMTS is Hirscher on Valium.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby h.harb » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:31 pm

From Facebook: Greg I agree, we are a long way off when it comes to teaching correct technique in USSA or in the US Ski Team. You have to understand technique before you can mess around with the fine tuning, like plates, type of training, etc. when you are so far off with basic skiing technique. And I don't see the right stuff, coming from the US Ski Team or US Coaches ASS. I've said this many times, the Austrians all ski with the same technique. The US Ski Team is a mix of whatever happens to happen. Now we have an exception, with Shiffrin, she has a much more classic technique, but she's a phenom, so that doesn't count.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:08 pm

h.harb wrote:Now we have an exception, with Shiffrin, she has a much more classic technique, but she's a phenom, so that doesn't count.


Exactly. USST didn't build Shiffrin's technique. Let's pray they don't destroy it.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:13 pm

Also, people keep saying "this will be an interesting season in GS" when comparing Hirscher to Ligety. I disagree to some extent. I predicted this in a few "discussions" with people last season when I said Ted was leaving a lot on the table from a line standpoint (the very thing that made him so fast). My argument was that a skier with better technique and timing [Hirscher] could carry the same amount of speed while cutting several meters per turn off Ted's line. We are only one race in, so we won't know if that holds true on every course until later in the season... but I maintain that it is at least possible, and might be happening based on what we saw in the first GS.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby h.harb » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:32 pm

Totally agree, I have the same response. To me it was only a matter of time before other skis and technique trumped Ted's technique and ski advantage.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby DougD » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:52 am

"PMTS is Hirscher on Valium."

At my age, I'd almost settle for Hirscher on formaldahyde!
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby Max_501 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:29 pm

DougD wrote:Harald, would you attribute this to an active effort to increase CB during the high C phase of the turn (while also holding solid CA)? Or...?


How will the answer make you a better skier?

IMO too many readers are getting caught in overanalyzing the top WC racers when its entirely irrelevant to the rest of us! Harald has already given us the Essential movements. Until they are mastered the rest simply doesn't enter the equation!
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby Matt » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:41 am

Max_501 wrote:
DougD wrote:Harald, would you attribute this to an active effort to increase CB during the high C phase of the turn (while also holding solid CA)? Or...?


How will the answer make you a better skier?

IMO too many readers are getting caught in overanalyzing the top WC racers when its entirely irrelevant to the rest of us! Harald has already given us the Essential movements. Until they are mastered the rest simply doesn't enter the equation!


People spend a lot of time time analyzing sports even though it does nothing for their own development. They may not even practice that sport. I suppose it is human nature.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby DougD » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:24 am

Max_501 wrote:
DougD wrote:Harald, would you attribute this to an active effort to increase CB during the high C phase of the turn (while also holding solid CA)? Or...?


How will the answer make you a better skier?

IMO too many readers are getting caught in overanalyzing the top WC racers when its entirely irrelevant to the rest of us! Harald has already given us the Essential movements. Until they are mastered the rest simply doesn't enter the equation!

Max, my question was addressed to Harald. As he chose to answer, he evidently thought it had value.

You may believe otherwise, but this is his forum.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby Max_501 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:30 am

DougD wrote:Max, my question was addressed to Harald. As he chose to answer, he evidently thought it had value.


True. Basically he said your question and the answer don't apply to recreational skiers. We've been down this path many times on this forum.
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Re: Hirscher out skis the field at Solden.

Postby DougD » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:07 am

Max_501 wrote:
DougD wrote:Max, my question was addressed to Harald. As he chose to answer, he evidently thought it had value.


True. Basically he said your question and the answer don't apply to recreational skiers. We've been down this path many times on this forum.


Hmmm... let's re-read what he actually wrote...

"This skiing by Hirscher isn't comparable to what normal skiers are able to do. You have to put it in context first to use it for recreational level skiing.. That's why I wrote "Essentials of Skiing" ."

So, according to Harald, by following "Essentials" normal skiers can, "put Hirscher's skiing in context first to use it for recreational level level skiing". Our skiing won't be "comparable" to Hirscher's, but we can adapt it to our context by following PMTS, particularly "Essentials".

That's very different from stating that Hirscher's skiing techniques simply "don't apply". You're a great skier, Max, and by all accounts a great PMTS coach too. Your guidance to other skiers, your MAs, etc. are remarkably valuable. But stepping in to contradict clear statements made by Harald is not helpful.
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