Ladies first SL run in olympics

Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby Matt » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:58 am

Great run from Shiffrin. It was quite interesting. Anja Pärsson who is the expert commentator talked for quite some time how important it is to not extend and instead wait for the skis to come around for themselves. She also talked about how much guts it takes to do it on this level and really trust that the skis will be there when you need them to. "When you become insecure it is a comforting feeling to extend to feel the skis contact with the snow, but you are really destroying the turn". She also thought that Shiffrin is very good at this.
They showed a Dartfish slow motion where they compared Maze with Shiffrin in the 5-6 first gates, what a difference. Maze was extending and not getting any good angles while Shiffrin really waited for the skis. She was meters ahead already after 6 gates.

Very disappointing run from M Schild today. Her inside ski was all over the place, not at all like we are used to seeing her.

... and don't mention the Swedes :cry:
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby h.harb » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:37 am

Nice report goes right along with the PMTS approach and what I have been writing for years. Finally a skier commentator who understands skiing. Well done.
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby geoffda » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:08 pm

GOLD!!

http://skiracing.com/stories/shiffrin-l ... lalom-run/

Sounds like a wild ride in the second run. Can't wait to see it.
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby nightsh » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:14 pm

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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby theorist » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:11 pm

“It just means you have to move your feet quicker,” she said. “And that makes you faster.” [Shiffrin commenting on the tighter set of one of the courses http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/22/sport ... ref=sports]
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby AnI » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:45 pm

Matt made very good comments with a reference to the words of a commentator. One can clearly see this if one looks at the video in very slow motion. In video below, the skier on the left in a dark-blue helmet is M.Shiffrin, the skier on the right in white helmet is her USA team mate R.Stiegler. The lady on the left won first place, the lady on the right was 4.19 seconds slower and came 20st in first attempt. She did not finish in the second attempt.

This video was slowed down by 30x. It turned out that M.S was going faster than R.S. I slowed M.S. footage by 5%, but still her trajectory was not the same as R.S.'s. "Playing" with time remapping could've synchronized the turns, but this would've erased all my notion and cropping keyframes - no way going back after all this work. So they are slightly out of sync at times.




This video was meant to be wide screen with 1920p resolution. You will get a better view if you use this link and switch to full screen and HD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PqKQtExzBg

The first thing which I see between 10 s and 12 seconds is that R.S. - evidently in an attempt to get grip and tighten her turn at the moment when she passes and touches the gate - strongly and very rapidly pushes her outside (left) leg and simultaneously drives her left knee to the snow. I think this is what Matt brought up in the beginning of this tread - it looks like she is trying to reach for the snow, but I think all she wants is to get more edge and stronger flex of her ski to get around that gate. The result is that her outside leg slips, loses grip, and all her weight lands on her inside foot. She achieves a tighter turn radius, but by turning on her inside (right) ski which from that moment on and through transition turns with a tighter radius than her outside ski (around 14 seconds mark). Consequently, her skis follow different paths and her feet separate by the 16 s mark. At this point, her legs are very wide apart and her weight is on her inside leg. She has to stand up and extend her right leg (around 26 s) to transfer and this costs her time. In comparison, M.S. stays much lower (evenly low) through the turn and leg legs are narrower and more flexed in transition. She gets her skis turning and she rides them all the way.

One can see the same leg drive in R.S. skiing at 40 s, also exactly at the moment when she touches the gate. A similar knee drive and position, viewed from the side at 1 min 19 s suggests that R.S. could potentially have an alignment issue - her knee looks very much A-frame like at that moment. I wonder if one could go as far as suggesting that her alignment and insufficient grip lead to her adaptive technique.

It is also notable that R.S. waves her arms a lot more that M.S. M.S. shows very good arms discipline.
Last edited by AnI on Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby HighAngles » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:20 am

Nice video comparo you put together. Thanks for doing that. I was less interested in the comparison though than just in looking at MS's technique in slow motion. It's clear that from a PMTS perspective she still has some work to do (even if she did win the gold!).
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby h.harb » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:10 am

HighAngles, Agreed Schiff has not yet matured her technique and also has some slight alignment issues, but it's better than it was there weeks ago . Also Schild is not where she was a few years ago. She is holding on the turn just a fraction too long, even if she is in good position. She's not as fluid, there's a hesitation in her transition to releasing.
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby jbotti » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:56 am

Stiegler would ski better immediately if she would jut narrow her stance. When I watched her run on the NBC telecast I was shocked at how wide she was. At this point in time, that's really old school.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby gaku » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:37 am

h.harb wrote:HighAngles, Agreed Schiff has not yet matured her technique and also has some slight alignment issues, but it's better than it was there weeks ago . Also Schild is not where she was a few years ago. She is holding on the turn just a fraction too long, even if she is in good position. She's not as fluid, there's a hesitation in her transition to releasing.


I heard her say in an interview that she had trained a lot on hard snow coming in to the Olympics, so she was a bit surprised in the first run, didn't quite trust her edges, and needed the first run to adjust to the condition.
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby h.harb » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:48 am

You can't go by sound bits from TV interviews, those are all staged. Every team has a training course to warm up on; the snow has been the same all week and they have all trained on salted snow. These comments are for the media. Those who have been there know different.
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Re: Ladies first SL run in olympics

Postby h.harb » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:53 am

Resi Stiegler has only herself and her mother to blame. She has been told about her alignment issues and her feet and boot problems, which are considerable. She looks like a free wheeling flower child, however she is a stubborn Austrian in reality that won't listen, even if it's in her best interest. We told her about her problems and this was before she was injured years ago. We even warned her of the consequences, but she didn't listen. She though she was going to be an immediate super star and everyone was telling her that except us. So she took the path of least resistance, didn't like what she heard from us and went the other way.

She is another US Ski Team wasted talent, I thought she could have been at least a top 10 skier and possibly had a podium or two in her. This was very possible because there were recently some years with terrible slalom skiing on the women's side, before Shiffrin and when Schild was injured and out..
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