Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:10 pm

Don't know if anyone else has seen this, but Steve Porino posted on Facebook that he wasn't sure about the first gate tip hook. I watched it over and over. It looks like the ski tip did go on the other side of the pole. But officially it's the boots that have to go inside the pole. So in America at least there is a huge controversy. I have looked at all the Euro sports pages and have seen nothing on this topic in German.
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby arnokamphuis » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:05 am

This is the first I heard of it. In the German, Austrian and Dutch news and sport sites there is nothing on this. And if the could have picked up Bode's mistake in the SC, then they would have surely picked up this one from Hirscher.
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby Whygimf » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:16 am

Officially, it's tips and feet crossing the gate line for correct gate passage. (FIS ICR 661.4)
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:35 am

2nd Run at Schladming (AUT)

As I understand it, both ski tips and both feet must pass to the inside of the gate. In this case the left ski tip appears to be on the outside of the gate.

Image

Image
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby arnokamphuis » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:26 am

This is impossible to determine from this single frame of a video clip in this quality. All sorts of artifacting going on. There is no way you can say from this if it is on the left or the right.
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:38 am

The gate is nearly vertical at that point. Look at the flexible joint of the gate where it interfaces with the snow. Is it between the skis?

Watch in HD and slow motion starting at 1:27



Another interesting frame.

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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby arnokamphuis » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:15 am

Look at the pole right after he passed the gate. It comes up very straight from his left. This would be impossible if he had the pole between his legs. In addition, his left ski is not coming up very strongly, which would happen if he would go over the pole at the point that he was suppose to go over it. I still don't see it.
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:11 pm

arnokamphuis wrote:Look at the pole right after he passed the gate. It comes up very straight from his left. This would be impossible if he had the pole between his legs.


I think you are grasping for straws with that analysis. :?
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby arnokamphuis » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:35 pm

Nope, just the reverse. If someone claims something, there has to be clear prove. There still isn't. I'm not grasping at straws, the people who accuse Marcel are.
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby jbotti » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:37 pm

I'm a Hirscher fan, but that gate is about to hit him square in the balls. Not really possible without straddling.
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby HeluvaSkier » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:45 pm

Looks like a straddle to me. I don't think the tip or the foot crossed the plane of the gate, let alone one or the other. Only one person knows for sure, and he's probably not going to say a word!
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby HeluvaSkier » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:49 pm

Whygimf wrote:Officially, it's tips and feet crossing the gate line for correct gate passage. (FIS ICR 661.4)


Whygimf - great to see you posting here.
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby theorist » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:46 pm

Ligety had an interesting commentary on the previous controversy (non-disqualified straddles by Hirscher and Neureuther in Zagreb in 2012): http://www.denverpost.com/ci_19856563

I recall Hirscher had repeated straddling issues (and controversies for not stopping when he had straddled, claiming he hadn't noticed) in 11-12, but managed to eliminate them for 12-13. Wonder why they're returning now -- are these just a few random mistakes that have no deeper significance or, if not, could his increased focus on GS be compromising his SL?
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby mrvilliams » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm

Looks like a straddle to me from something other than Universal Sports...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2v7hk0agR0
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Re: Again controversy over the Hirscher gate straddle

Postby h.harb » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:34 pm

From what I've seen it was a straddle.
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