Ski Touring boots and alignment

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Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby thys » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:51 pm

Hi all

I ski Head raptor boots with alignment modifications from Harb Ski Systems: changed sole angle, raised heel, and more extreme cuff-canting than the boots allows out of the box.
Now recently I went on a ski-touring trip and noticed I was the only one on regular skiboots. All others had some tour/alpine hybrid boot with rubber soles and holes for a pin-binding. Now for this trip the extra weight wasn’t really a problem (most didn’t actually ski a pin-binding), but for future trips I might want to use a pin-binding. What was a significant problem on this trip however were the soles, some bootpacks were very rocky and exposed, and with the plastic soles I was struggling. Our mountain guide urged me multiple times to get ‘proper boots’ next year.

Now, I am wondering in what is possible with touring boots.

1. Is it possible to make alignment changes to the soles of touring boots?
I can imagine that with pin-bindings this is near impossible; but also with hybrid alpine bindings (e.g. marker baron alpine touring bindings) I can imagine that making changes to a partial rubber sole might be a lot trickier than to a fully plastic sole?

2. Cuff canting on touring boots. This should work similar to regular alpine boots, correct?

3. How important is perfect alignment while touring? On the one hand I can’t imagine this mattering that much in perfect powder, or does it? But then often there is also lesser quality snow to navigate, and of course one has to tour uphill, non-perfecting alignment might be a annoying for this too?


Obviously what is best for my feet is something that's best answered by HSS or a certified bootfitter. But for now I am mainly wondering what's possible in general.

Looking forward to any answers. Thanks in advance!
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby jbotti » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:46 pm

Things may have changed since the last time I checked into this but the last time I checked on all this with Diana, the only real option for alignment was shims under the bindings.

How important is perfect alignment? Considering that one hikes 2-3 hours for 6 mins of turns I would say its not all that important.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby ErikCO » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:09 pm

As someone who does some light touring and has talked with Diana about it, my take on it is that yes the only real option if skiing in pin bindings in canting the bindings. Perhaps the bigger issue is that very few touring boots have any ability to have their cuffs adjusted. The Lang Freetour series is apparently one of the few that does allow limited cuff adjustment. While it will obviously vary by person, I am much more sensitive to cuff problems than I am to canting. My alpine gear has 1.5 degrees on one boot and 2 degrees on the other. I recently skied my Freetours on an un-canted binding at a resort and, while I could tell a difference when carving on groomers, once I got off piste it really wasn't all that big of a deal.

The more light-weight touring boots with high amounts of ankle freedom typically ski very differently than alpine boots too as they don't give anywhere near the amount of support/stiffness.

As to the importance of proper alignment when touring, I would agree with jbotti that it probably isn't all that big of a deal.
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby thys » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:38 am

Thanks for the replies!

last time I checked on all this with Diana, the only real option for alignment was shims under the bindings.

This is what I feared :(


As to the importance of proper alignment when touring, I would agree with jbotti that it probably isn't all that big of a deal.

This is what I hoped :)

I had a look at the Lange freetour series, but they seem quite close to alpine boots in weight and construction. And after thinking about this, and looking at the prices :shock: Decided that I really don't want more than two pairs of boots, and therefore am thinking to go more to the lighter end of the spectrum for my second pair to cover a bigger range.
Considering that the the sole-canting is not too important the main thing I worry about is the cuff-canting. Since my legs are bent outward quite a bit, and I fear this might make tipping (relatively wide) skis harder and/or uncomfortable since the cuff will not give any support if the canting is way off.

Question: Are there alternatives to cuff canting? e.g. add some padding between the boot and the liner on the inside and remove some material on the outside to make sure that my leg has equal contact with both sides of the cuff?

Unfortunately I am in Europe so dropping by HSS is not really an option at the moment. I'll try and fit some boots and will post an update once I bought something and get a chance to ski it.
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby ErikCO » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:12 pm

I don't think there are really good alternatives, unfortunately. Diana's suggestion to me was to try boots, stand without liners but footbeds in the boot with feet a comfortable as if you were going to adjust the cuff. Different boots will be shaped differently and, hopefully, you can find one where your lower leg does not contact the sides of the boot. Your luck will vary.

And if you have never tried skiing downhill in a set of lightweight AT boots, be forewarned, it is a different experience. The little bit I have done was very disconcerting as they just don't have the forward flex rigidity I'm used to.
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby dan.boisvert » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:23 pm

I tour in a Dynafit Vulcan (the old, stiffer one with the carbon-fiber cuff). Diana set me up with some Intuition liners in them, and they ski pretty well, for what they are. They're also really warm, which is a lovely change from the B2 RD's I ski at resorts. I don't hike/skin to ski hard snow, so the lack of alignment and footbed options in touring boots isn't super noticeable to me. I'm outside on a beautiful day, generally skiing powder; it's fun.

The one complaint I have about the way the Vulcans ski is that the flex is backwards--it feels stiff at first but, if you get really forward or hit something that slows the skis down fast, the boot folds up under you. I'm looking forward to seeing the Dynafit Hoji Free come out next year, which seems like it might solve that, and also be stiffer. I'm sure it still won't be as powerful as a 150 flex race boot, but a guy can dream. :D
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby kirtland » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:34 pm

There are some touring boots that have cuff adjustment on the outside of the boot. When you need more you have to install an adjustable rivet to the inside of the boot. Here are articles here on WildSnow (be patient the site is slow to load). https://www.wildsnow.com/4084/dynafit-z ... ment-cant/ https://www.wildsnow.com/backcountry-sk ... &sa=Search
Supposedly the Atomic touring and Walk to Ride boots which are heat molded to your feet adjust the cuff in the process. I don't know how successful it is. You could ask Jackson Hogen at RealSkiers.com.
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby thys » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:48 pm

Seeing as most here commented that alignment doesn’t matter too much when skiing deep snow, I mostly selected on fit and a good weight/ski-performance balance. And I was of course limited by the available models in my local shop. In the end I went with the Tecnica Zero G tour pro (That’s this boot: https://www.tecnicasports.com/japan/pro ... -tour-pro/). And got a pair of Black Crows ova freebird skis (https://www.black-crows.com/eu/fr_en/pr ... -freebird/) with dynafit bindings to go with them. The skis are 85 mm underfoot, 175 cm long, and have a 17 meter radius.

The comparative low weight of the whole setup, as well as the pin-binding makes touring so much easier on this setup than on my old setup that I don’t think I will ever tour again with my normal Head Raptor ski boots. I really liked the skis for skiing soft snow, soft snow between tight trees, and even for relatively relaxed skiing on groomed runs if the snow wasn’t rock hard. I actually had the feeling that the fact that the skis and binding are so light makes tipping easier. I do imagine that people that want to ski off-piste at high speed or jump big cliffs will find the skis too flimsy, but that’s not my thing.
In addition to that, bootpacking or even just walking (or running!) on hard surfaces is infinitely more comfortable and safer than with my regular boots.

Having said all that. The boots are rated 130 flex just like my Head Raptors, however these ratings are on completely different scales: the raptors are much much stiffer, and offer much more control. The touring setup doesn’t work well on hard/icy snow, the skis chatter when trying to get them to bite (OK to be fair, that could be me, but I have much more success with my regular raptor/iSL setup). So this is definitely not an replacement for my regular resort setup, but for touring I love it.
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby njdiver85 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:38 pm

I'm struggling with getting my Technica Cochise 120 touring boots dialed in. Lots of ankle bone rubbing and pain on my left foot. This is the side where my HSS-alligned Lange boots have the cuff angled pretty far out. Obviously no cuff allignment options in the Technicas. Just did a punch to make some room, and need to test. Next step will be to add some material to the medial side of the upper cuff. Frustrating process to say the least.
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Re: Ski Touring boots and alignment

Postby h.harb » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:44 pm

We have done many Touring setups. Most of the lateral alignment needs to be done under the binding. I use the Dynafit system, I cant the ski under the binding. If the cuff has adjustment (most do not) we do it. We can extend the range of adjustment. Come to the shop. Call ahead for an appointment.
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