ski recommendations for crud conditions

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ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby NothingClever » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:33 pm

Hi All - what are a few recommendations for a wider west coast crud ski (mostly mammoth mountain)? My current skis that I like are the Head Supershape Speeds, Kastle MX88, and I'm looking to replace some old Volkl Katanas (assuming we get a better season next year!). I dont want to pay full retail so that probably eliminates Stockli :-( but anything in the Head/Kastle/Elan line or others i should look at? Thanks!
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby jbotti » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:08 am

Having skied Tahoe and Mammoth a good deal I would look for a ski in the 88-95cm zone underfoot zone. You may love your MX88s but they are on the stiff side to be a good off piste that will actually bend when laid over off piste. I believe that the Katana is 110cm underfoot. I have trouble finding many conditions where I want or need a ski that wide even in Tahoe or Mammoth. And Mammoth on pow days is usually pretty windbuffed where a thinner ski is better. And even if 100-110 underfoot is perfect for the two pow runs you get in on a pow day, after that you are skiing chop and crud and bumps where a thinner ski is way better. HH and Diana never ski anything close to 110 underfoot so its hard to find recommendations on skis that wide. Max still likes the old Elan 1010 and every once in a while one of those shows up new on Ebay. HH and Diana really like the Dynastar Legend X 88. I have not skied it but they have told me it's very user friendly and rewards PMTS movements. I have skied and own the Head Monster 88 (first two seasons version as they have softened it this year and softened it further for next year). That's a very nice ski and pretty PMTS user friendly for those with good skills. The Monster 98 is a plank and a very old school powerful big mountain ski made for SG turns at speed through crud (same for the Monster 108). If you actually want to make turns there are way better skis. The Head Rev 105s were quite user friendly with a tight turn radius. There may be some floating around still on Ebay.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby CO_Steve » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:09 pm

Our Colorado crud isn't in the same league as Tahoe (skied there 24 years, I know) but I'm loving my Sped Zone 12 Ti in almost any snow. Anything from a foot of new to crud bumps to groomers. I do like to ski "in the snow" but what few powder days we've had this year I've been smiling. Not as wide as you're looking for but then you can rip the groomed back to the lift. Maybe the X88 is of the same vintage.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby Vailsteve » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:07 pm

Two thumbs ups for Jbotti's recommendation on the older Head Monter 88's. Great ski for the back bowls here at Vail.

But now I REALLY like my Hart Pulse. It is 77 under foot and works very very well all over-- front, back, bowls, bumps, crud. It really is a western mountain one quiver ski....
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby NothingClever » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:57 pm

I enjoy the mx88 for general all-mtn firm conditions but not so much in softer/crudier/variable conditions. So, (1) suggestions for a wider version of a Monster 88 in a 95-100mm size? And, (2) Looked for the old Rev 105 and there's not much out there - is the Head Collective 105 similar (turn radius looks roughly the same)?

Thanks for everyone's input.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby jbotti » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:33 pm

Collective has a lot more rocker both tip and tail.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby B.Mulligan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:27 pm

The monster 88s should work well. Take a look at the enforcers 93/100 too.
Honestly most ski companies make a pretty credible 88-99mm waisted crud buster. Skied a 180 J Skis Masreblaster the other day...I liked it in warm chunky snow of New England

I'm surprised to hear HH liked the legend x88, that didn't seem like the sort of ski he typically endorses... I might have to give it a second look.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:38 pm

B.Mulligan wrote:The monster 88s should work well. Take a look at the enforcers 93/100 too.


Those two skis are very different... so much so that I hesitate to mention them in the same sentence unless I'm contrasting two totally different approaches to how to build a ski.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby Max_501 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:55 pm

B.Mulligan wrote:Take a look at the enforcers 93/100 too.


What makes you feel this ski is a good fit for PMTS skiers?
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby NothingClever » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:43 pm

Let me zero in on the exact advice i'm looking for now... Max, Heluva, JBotti - what would you shortlist for an approx. 95-105mm ski for west coast powder/crud/chop? (specifically the Mammoth days where you have 2 fresh runs and then spend the rest of the day working the stashes and the tracked out dense chop)
Thanks!
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby lakespapa » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:50 am

Max_501 wrote:
B.Mulligan wrote:Take a look at the enforcers 93/100 too.


What makes you feel this ski is a good fit for PMTS skiers?


They're pretty directional. Lay them over, and they carve.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby ToddW » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:39 am

lakespapa wrote:
Max_501 wrote:
B.Mulligan wrote:Take a look at the enforcers 93/100 too.


What makes you feel this ski is a good fit for PMTS skiers?


They're pretty directional. Lay them over, and they carve.


I have no idea what your first sentence means. Directional ski?

As you probably know, there used to be a great many posts on EpicSki boasting of how brilliantly one random fat ski or another carved. The claim was even made for some reverse camber skis.

Can you instead explain how the ski rewards good skiing movements and how it speaks up to warn you if you push the tails out or rotate your feet or incline/lean in or camp out a foot behind the bindings? How does it respond to fore-aft input. Does the flex pattern aid or hinder your efforts to progressively tighten your turn radius up until release.

I'm not judging this particular ski since I've never been on it. I'm just suggesting what would catch my attention in a gear section post as a PMTS skier.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby lakespapa » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:00 am

ToddW wrote:
lakespapa wrote:
Max_501 wrote:
They're pretty directional. Lay them over, and they carve.


I have no idea what your first sentence means. Directional ski?

As you probably know, there used to be a great many posts on EpicSki boasting of how brilliantly one random fat ski or another carved. The claim was even made for some reverse camber skis.

Can you instead explain how the ski rewards good skiing movements and how it speaks up to warn you if you push the tails out or rotate your feet or incline/lean in or camp out a foot behind the bindings? How does it respond to fore-aft input. Does the flex pattern aid or hinder your efforts to progressively tighten your turn radius up until release.

I'm not judging this particular ski since I've never been on it. I'm just suggesting what would catch my attention in a gear section post as a PMTS skier.


Directional in the sense that the ski rewards carving inputs, more tip to tail carving inputs, than it rewards the swively, twin-tippy, pivoty style preferred by many fat skis. Check out Realskier on this — they like the Enforcer.

I'm no expert PMTSer, but I know the ski is a medium flex and very definite on edge. It likes forward pressure, but carves well from the center, too. I avoid heel-pushing, so I can't speak to that, and inclination (sans angulation) isn't my style.

So is it a ski that will teach you how to ski? I can't say with any certainty.

Again, I'm only speculating as to why B. Mulligan suggested this ski. I own the 100, and have liked it, but I prefer other skis most of the time in the east. I'm not sure I'd select it as a crud ski, per se — here in the east again — too much feedback, especially in heavy crud. I prefer Kästle under those circumstances.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby jbotti » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:32 am

I have not skied the Enforcer 100 but I looked at the skis profile. These are skis we generally avoid as PMTS skiers. It is pretty heavily rockered ski both tip and tail. One comment I got from a friend was "similar to the head Kore's but worse".

We continue to try and post about skis that reward PMTS movements and that will support continued progress with this movements. As I said in a my Kore 93 review, for those that aren't committed to PMTS movements these kind of skis are alright. For everyone else here they are not good options.
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Re: ski recommendations for crud conditions

Postby DougD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:34 am

B.Mulligan wrote:Skied a 180 J Skis Masreblaster the other day...I liked it in warm chunky snow of New England

Different conditions than the OP is describing. A few inches of warm New England crud is not two feet of Mammoth mank or Sierra cement.

Toddw and I also skied that warm, rain-softened New England snow the other day. Todd was on Head i.SLs (non-RD). I was on SuperShape i.Speeds. These 66-68mm skis handled the conditions easily, responded precisely to PMTS movements and provided instant feedback on incorrect movements. In these conditions there was no need for a 96mm (or 86mm, or even 76mm...) ski. In fact, every race-trained skier we saw (PMTS or not) was on a race or soft race ski.

Wide skis respond more slowly to tipping, which tempts most skiers to revert to rotary movements. We saw mobs of people on fatter skis... all skidding and swiveling. For skiers pursuing PMTS movements in most New England conditions, wide skis offer no advantages and tend to impede progress.
Last edited by DougD on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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