What is a good ski footbed?

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What is a good ski footbed?

Postby Taketo » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:45 pm

Hello Everyone,

I have some questions about the custom ski footbed as belows.
Q.What is a good posting of the custom ski footbed?

Q.What kind of problems will be caused by an incorrectly fabricated footbed?

Q.What is the problem of my custom ski footbed?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138142261 ... ed-public/


Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Taketo
 
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?

Postby DougD » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:48 am

Expert Skier 1 has a chapter on foot support and alignment, including footbeds. The new Alignment Manual goes into greater depth. These are available on the HSS website (link at top of page).

Beyond the information in these expert resources, attempts to analyze footbeds or feet via the internet are largely doomed to failure. There's no substitute for expert evaluation of your feet and stance by trained eyes and hands. Any attempt to DIY a footbed without such knowledge would only produce a suitable work product by sheer luck.
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?

Postby ChrisC » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:19 pm

There's a lot of factors about your feet that go into constructing a good footbed, so it's hard to give advice over the internet. The HSS approach is to take extensive measurements of your feet, ankles and lower leg as described in the alignment manual. Without doing this the footbed maker is basically flying blind and the chances of a good result are minimal.

But there are some problems that many skiers with high arches (like you) have when they get custom footbeds made. It's caused by having too much weight on the foot when they mould the footbed (like having you stand on a moulding machine). They often make this worse by using too much posting. The result is that your foot is prevented from everting inside the boot and you are forced to compensate with movements like knee drive (twisting your knees).

This makes skiing using PMTS impossible. A key feature of PMTS is to tip your feet inside the boot before making movements higher up the leg. If your footbeds stop this then everything else doesn't work properly.
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?

Postby Taketo » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:08 pm

Hi DougD,

Thank you very much for your reply and advices.
I bought the book"Expert Skier 1 "and the new Alignment Manual,and I am reading them this week.
There are valuable information about the posting of the custom footbed in the book and manual.
That is what I need.I really appreciate it.

If anyone wants to know the keypoint for grinding the posting in the manual as the belows.
The base of the footbed should be flat and stable after grinding.It shouldn't tilt or teeter on its base.



:cry: But it seems that the posting of the custom ski footbed made by most of experienced boot fitters is not correctly fabricated after surfing the internet.
It is difficult to find a good boot fitter to make a professional-quality custom ski footbed in Asia. :cry:
Taketo
 
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?

Postby Taketo » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:44 pm

Hi ChrisC,

Thank you very much for your reply and detailed explanation.
I learned a lot from your reply,and finally I knew why I cannot do the tipping movement very well when I am practicing PMTS this winter.
I really appreciate your explanation

May I ask you some questions?
Q.
According to what you said
My custom ski footbed has too much posting,and my foot is prevented from everting inside the boot and I am forced to compensate with movements like knee drive (twisting your knees). Right?
I always thought the posting below my foot arch is not thick enough and I need to add more posting material below the foot arch.
PS:Sorry for asking this question.English is my second language,and I am afraid I misunderstood something.

Q.If one day I go to HSS ski shop to buy a new pair of ski boots with new custom footbed from Asia,
How many hours will it take? like extensive measurements of my feet,making a custom ski footbed,and boot fit,etc.




Many thanks
Taketo
 
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?

Postby ChrisC » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:13 pm

This is where it depends on your feet. Generally skiers with rigid feet will need less posting and skiers with mobile feet will need more posting. We can't tell about your case over the internet.

But there are some things you can check at home. Your footbeds should improve your balance, so take them out of your boots and try and balance on one leg with them. This is the One-Footed Balance Test in the alignment manual. If they don't improve your ability to balance on one leg then they are not going to be helpful for your skiing.

Fixing any problems via the internet can be tricky though. It's also easy to get it wrong if you try and self diagnose and fix things yourself.
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?

Postby DougD » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:55 am

Taketo wrote:But it seems that the posting of the custom ski footbed made by most of experienced boot fitters is not correctly fabricated after surfing the internet.
It is difficult to find a good boot fitter to make a professional-quality custom ski footbed in Asia.

It is difficult to find a good boot fitter ANYWHERE. In 30+ years of skiing I tried at least a dozen different ski shops in the USA for boot work. One was reasonably competent for punching out a shell, but NONE of them had any idea about proper stance and alignment... until I visited HSS. In one 2-hour visit they fixed a knee problem I'd suffered with for decades. Other shops had no clue, even when I told them about the problem.


Taketo wrote:Q.If one day I go to HSS ski shop to buy a new pair of ski boots with new custom footbed from Asia,
How many hours will it take? like extensive measurements of my feet,making a custom ski footbed,and boot fit,etc.

You should make an appointment (email them or phone). Discuss what you think you need. They will listen and advise. If there's any chance you'll need new boots, they'll try to have good choices in stock. As you'd be travelling a LONG way, having this discussion and an appointment in advance is important.

    Once you arrive:
    1. They'll begin with a complete evaluation of your feet, legs and stance while barefoot, including a lot of time balancing on one foot (as Chris C said). This forms the basis of all the work that follows. They keep all measurements and notes on file, which supports follow-up work in the future. This takes ~30mins

    2. Custom footbeds are next. They have multiple brands and models in stock. Your fitter will choose the best ones based on your feet and stance. (I needed a different setup for each foot, due to different pronation/flexibility.) They'll observe your one-footed balance while standing on the footbed and adjust if necessary. This takes <1 hour.

    3. They'll inspect your boots to determine if they're suitable (for fit and stance). If they advise new boots, get them. HSS never sells boots (or anything else) just to make a sale. If they suggest new boots there are good reasons, which they'll be happy to explain. Example: I did not need new boots but my partner did... and that's the advice we got. This conversation only takes a few minutes

    4. If you need new boots, they'll provide recommendations and one or more models to try. Unless you're a World Cup racer with high level needs, choosing a new boot shell should take <30mins.

    5. Depending on the boot and your needs as a skier, they may or may not recommend custom liners. I have them and they make a huge improvement, but some skiers may be satisfied with stock liners. Custom liners take <1 hour.

    6. Now comes trying on the whole package: boots, liners and footbeds. They'll help you evaluate fit, tipping range and stance. Once fit and cuff alignment are adjusted correctly, they'll observe while you do more one-footed balancing. This should take <30mins.

    7. The large majority of skiers need boot sole grinding/canting. They'll do that, then observe more one-footed balancing to make sure the adjustments are optimal. This may take about an hour, depending on the adjustments needed.

Add up the steps you think you'll need and that will give you some idea of the time.

As an option, you can book an on-snow evaluation of the new setup. A fitter will ski with you to confirm that the setup is optimal. Fine-tuning is sometimes indicated, but the in-shop work gets most skiers 90% of the way there. The improvement is immediate and noticeable for almost all skiers.
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?

Postby Taketo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:49 am

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your reply,and I really learned from your reply. :)

Just like what you said" It's also easy to get it wrong if you try and self diagnose and fix things yourself."

I bought my ski boots with the custom ski footbed form an experienced ski boot fitter(being a boot fitter for over 10 or 20 years and kind of well-known in that area)
After I put on them,my feet hurt during skiing ,then I got torus formation. :cry: Besides,it is too loose,too.Then I tried to fix it myself.I had no choice at that time.
Recently my ski instructor told me that something is wrong with my custom ski footbed. :cry:
Actually it is a really sufferring experience. :cry:
But I learned something from this suffering experience.
It seems it is an impossible mission to find a professional boot fitter who knows alignment assessment,and provide well-fitted ski boots,etc....not an experienced one.
Taketo
 
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?

Postby Taketo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:11 am

Hi DougD ,

Thank you very much for your reply and detailed experience sharing. :)

DougD wrote:
It is difficult to find a good boot fitter ANYWHERE. In 30+ years of skiing I tried at least a dozen different ski shops in the USA for boot work. One was reasonably competent for punching out a shell, but NONE of them had any idea about proper stance and alignment... until I visited HSS. In one 2-hour visit they fixed a knee problem I'd suffered with for decades. Other shops had no clue, even when I told them about the problem.

I couldn't agree with you more.

My friend bought a new pair of ski boots when he skied in Northern America.Recently I found his footbed was incorrectly fabricated ,too. :(
It is kind of sad because the ski shop where he bought his ski boots is very famous in Northern America.

DougD wrote:
You should make an appointment (email them or phone). Discuss what you think you need. They will listen and advise. If there's any chance you'll need new boots, they'll try to have good choices in stock. As you'd be travelling a LONG way, having this discussion and an appointment in advance is important.
Once you arrive:
1. They'll begin with a complete evaluation of your feet, legs and stance while barefoot, including a lot of time balancing on one foot (as Chris C said). This forms the basis of all the work that follows. They keep all measurements and notes on file, which supports follow-up work in the future. This takes ~30mins

2. Custom footbeds are next. They have multiple brands and models in stock. Your fitter will choose the best ones based on your feet and stance. (I needed a different setup for each foot, due to different pronation/flexibility.) They'll observe your one-footed balance while standing on the footbed and adjust if necessary. This takes <1 hour.

3. They'll inspect your boots to determine if they're suitable (for fit and stance). If they advise new boots, get them. HSS never sells boots (or anything else) just to make a sale. If they suggest new boots there are good reasons, which they'll be happy to explain. Example: I did not need new boots but my partner did... and that's the advice we got. This conversation only takes a few minutes

4. If you need new boots, they'll provide recommendations and one or more models to try. Unless you're a World Cup racer with high level needs, choosing a new boot shell should take <30mins.

5. Depending on the boot and your needs as a skier, they may or may not recommend custom liners. I have them and they make a huge improvement, but some skiers may be satisfied with stock liners. Custom liners take <1 hour.

6. Now comes trying on the whole package: boots, liners and footbeds. They'll help you evaluate fit, tipping range and stance. Once fit and cuff alignment are adjusted correctly, they'll observe while you do more one-footed balancing. This should take <30mins.

7. The large majority of skiers need boot sole grinding/canting. They'll do that, then observe more one-footed balancing to make sure the adjustments are optimal. This may take about an hour, depending on the adjustments needed.


Add up the steps you think you'll need and that will give you some idea of the time.

As an option, you can book an on-snow evaluation of the new setup. A fitter will ski with you to confirm that the setup is optimal. Fine-tuning is sometimes indicated, but the in-shop work gets most skiers 90% of the way there. The improvement is immediate and noticeable for almost all skiers.


Your suggestion really helps me a lot and I really appreciate it. :D
Taketo
 
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Re: What is a good ski footbed?cessfully

Postby Vailsteve » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:27 pm

Proper boot fitting and proper boot alignment are two different things. Most shops can barely do one or the other.

They are, however, seqential AND iterative. One step leads to another, and then another, and then everything begins to loop back to ensure the footbed, liner, and boot all support the optimum skiing alignment for you.

You start with measuring the foot, and then moves “up” to the ankle, the shin (tibula and fibula), then the knee and then the hips (the lilac crest). Harb takes literally dozens of measurements—and all are important. And the results begin to dictate the subtle interplay between YOUR foot and legs and hips and the “best” footbed, liner and boot.

DougD explained the process beautifully. It truly is a unique process that is quite fascinating to experience (and yes, I am/was a nerd engineer who enjoys learning about this stuff...).

Having taken the alignment course last October, I can attest It is VERY VERY intense and incredibly detailed. Heck, even the pre-exam was not easy to pass ...even though it was an open book exam.

Harald, Diana, Walker and Becky make the process look easy. It is not. But it is so so worth it—IF you want to ski the PMTS way.
If you want to twist, rotate, extend, or just pizza your way down the mountain, then any boot two sizes too big will work.

In a nutshell, it is worth every penny.

Vailsteve
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