Gear for the First Time Skier

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Gear for the First Time Skier

Postby 75phoenix75 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:30 pm

Hi all,

My wife and I went to Okemo for our first time skiing last month. We loved it. Two days on the slopes and barely off the bunnies. I subsequently purchased a pair of Rossignol Experience 77s for myself and Temptation 77s for my wife which were highly reviewed for beginner-intermediates. Now that I've spent several hours reading the threads on this forum, I'm second guessing that decision. Our aspirations are modest - we will likely always be recreational skiers but would like to be able to ski well. PMTS skiing looks like beauty in motion to my eyes.

1. Are the skis I've purchased suitable to get started or should I return them and purchase something else?

2. What boots should I be considering and in what flex range? My wife and I are both 42 years old. I'm 5'11" (168lbs) not athletic but not hopeless either. My wife is 5'4" (95 lbs) and is a jogger and yoga enthusiast. We have an appointment next week to have our feet measured and evaluated by Paul Richelson of Feet First if any of you are familiar.

Thank you for your time and advice!

-Rob
Boston, Massachusetts
Last edited by 75phoenix75 on Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gear for the First Time Skier

Postby ToddW » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:48 pm

Rob,

Don't take conventional lessons. Your first skiing lessons will stick hard because they are your first learning experiences. Unlearning and re-learning skiing afterwards is much harder.

Post on the social chatting and posse subforums looking for a PMTS skier who'd be willing to show you the ropes. A lot of the camp attendees are from the Northeast and have attended multiple camps. (I'm getting ready to head over to Austria for the Hintertux PMTS camp, or I'd offer to ski with you.)

When the weather gets warm, so-called spring skiing conditions arise. The snow gets soft or even slushy and it becomes much harder for beginners to ski. If you can't find someone else to show you the PMTS ropes before the snow softens too much this season, I'd be glad to spend a day with you next winter (at my home mountain of Killington, not far from Okemo) when the conditions are again good on the easy slopes.

Buy the Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier vol I book/e-book and DvD/e-video from https://harbskisystems.com/ . If you buy the hardcopy book and DvD, you can save a few bucks by buying them as a combo bundle. The 2nd half of the video is about first steps on skis for beginners. Early in the book are some exercises to do in boots without skis with names like walking the S line. These will help you get a feel for standing in your boots while they are tipped on an edge. Don't worry about looking silly doing them. They'll help.

Others will have detailed advice for boots, but make sure your bootfitter knows you want a "performance fit" even though you're new to the sport. Most bootfitters will put you in a boot too large -- too long and too wide -- both for first day comfort and because it's less work for them than making the right boot fit your foot. The liners in boots "pack out" after supporting your weight and the load of skiing after a few tens of days. At that point, the original comfort fit boot becomes something more akin to a huge battleship with a tiny human foot floating free somewhere in the middle of it.

Welcome to skiing. I hope you and your wife have a future filled with decades of skiing fun.

Todd
.
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Re: Gear for the First Time Skier

Postby DougD » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:19 am

+1 to Todd's post. I've been to camp, but skiing with Todd further aided my progress immensely. I'll repeat one piece of his advice because it's important... DO NOT take non-PMTS lessons. They will merely train your bodies in ineffective movements that will take you longer to unlearn. Been there... done that.

We're from CT and often ski in the Berkshires or southern/central VT. Happy to ski with you if our schedules happen to mesh.

Regarding skis, a 77mm waisted ski is a bit wider than ideal for learning PMTS movements. It will react more slowly to tipping and requires more highly developed skills. Something <70mm would be better. That said, it's difficult to find narrower skis in lengths and flex patterns suitable for rank beginners. Two years ago I put my beginner partner on Head Rev 70s. Unfortunately, those are no longer made. If you can't find narrower skis, the 77s will probably be okay. But if you ever have a chance to demo a 65-70mm ski, you'll be amazed at how much more responsive it is (to PMTS movements).

BTW... congratulations on finding/recognizing PMTS as a path to real expert skiing. No one will tell you it's easy, but for first timers to recognize it is already an accomplishment. Welcome!
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Re: Gear for the First Time Skier

Postby 75phoenix75 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:15 pm

Thanks Doug! Did your partner find that the tip rocker on the ski made it more difficult to execute PMTS techniques?
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Re: Gear for the First Time Skier

Postby FHooper » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:38 pm

Hi Rob,
I agree with Doug about the non-PMTS lessons; I share with many others the task of working to undo decades of doing it wrong.

I'm just south of Providence, RI -- so I'm closer than the others. While I think of Okemo as my "home mountain" I'm now skiing more at Wachussetts as it's just 1:20 away, and a great place to do drills. I'd enjoy skiing with you when we can set it up. I'm mostly retired so I have a lot of flexibility (in availability, anyway) and could meet you at Wachussetts or somewhere in mid-Vermont.

I've only taken the Blue/Dark Blue course twice, so I'm far from the best to get you started. But I could do little in PMTS when I arrived at my first course three years ago. I still remember the drills they started me with, and how difficult I found them. Please send me a PM if you'd like to set up something.

Fred
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Re: Gear for the First Time Skier

Postby DougD » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:16 pm

75phoenix75 wrote:Thanks Doug! Did your partner find that the tip rocker on the ski made it more difficult to execute PMTS techniques?

My partner lacks the skills to make that assessment. I've been meaning to try his skis myself but haven't gotten around to it yet.

FWIW, Head's rocker tends to be less than many other brands. HH and other experts call it "marketing rocker". :wink: It's in the brochure, not so much in the ski.

Further, tip rocker is less problematic than tail rocker for learning PMTS, or for skiing in general.
- Tip rocker (unless extreme) just delays the entry of a ski into the turn. Not ideal, but not disastrous either.
- OTOH, tail rocker prevents you from controlling the end of the turn at all. It forces a choice between starting the next turn too early or finishing the turn with a skid. On the hard packed or icy surfaces that we NE skiers inevitably encounter, tail rocker is a disaster. On any but expert feet, it guarantees a twist and skid style of skiing... not PMTS at all.
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Re: Gear for the First Time Skier

Postby 75phoenix75 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:26 am

I wanted to provide an update on my equipment search for other beginning skiers who might chance across this thread. After spending a considerable amount of time looking into beginner skies with a maximum waist of 72mm (there aren't many), I ended up sticking with the tried and true and purchasing Head The Link Pro skis.

While Head Link skis are still produced, the model currently sold under that name is NOT the same that Harald reviewed back in 2011/12. The Head Link's that Harald regarded so highly are now sold as "The Link Pro" skis. The non-Pro models have a different side cut and feature a composite core instead of wood.

Another note: These are rental skis; you will not typically find them in shops. Harb Ski Systems may be able to special order and ship them to you. I do not know. MSRP is around $360 including Tyrolia SP100 system bindings.
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Re: Gear for the First Time Skier

Postby DougD » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:17 pm

Rob,

Good update. Glad to see you've found a solution that may work for you.

Following up on the previous discussion regarding tip rocker on certain Head models... I finally had a chance to ski my partner's Head Rev 70s. Wow! What a great ski for novice PMTS learners. Very good response to tipping movements. No issues with the (alleged) rocker. If the rocker exists at all, it's minimal and doesn't effect skiing for the intended user. I was able to ski it harder than any novice/intermediate would (but with PMTS movements) and had no issues at all. It responded predictably and accurately to Phantom Move turns. It was a great choice for PMTS newbies.

Hope the ski you found does as well.
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