What to do to get a proper PMTS aligned Fischer ski boot

[Nkster]

How do I have to setup the Fischer vacuum station, to get a proper PMTS aligned ski boot?
How wide do I have to stand, how do I have to place my knees in the Vac station?
Has anybody experiences with that, because the guy from the shop had like no clue how to position my knees, how wide to stand what to do to get a good result.
Now I have a bit of a strange fitted boot, because the angle of the shells is different(sidewards angle)

best regards
Nkster

[Obrules15]

The angles may be different because your legs are different (mine are). You really just need to schedule a trip to Portes Du Ski in Holland. Having recently emerged from boot hell thanks to HSS I'm a big fan of getting the boots done right.

[DougD]

Agree with obrules15. No one can fit your boots over the internet. It requires in-person assessment of your feet, legs and entire body... by someone who has developed a deep understanding of how body mechanics work while skiing. Very few shops have that knowledge.

Your shop experience is typical. In 35 years of skiing, none of the dozen shops I used ever fit my boots correctly. It wasn't until I visited HSS that I realized how ignorant even the best traditionsl ski shops are.

A trip to Portes du Ski will be worth 10x what it costs you in time and money. As you're young, you have a rare opportunity to begin your skiing life with a correct setup.

That's worth more than 100 days on snow. In fact, skiing in a bad setup will force you into bad, adaptive movements that you'll just have to unlearn later. That can take as long as learning them in the first place. Skiing in a bad setup is about the worst thing you could do for your skiing.

Get on the next train!

[Nkster]

It's like 6 hours with the car to get there, maybe I find time during Christmas. 2 Questions: How much do they charge for a complete boot and do I have to buy a boot or could they also tune my boot?

Just bought a complete new boot and don't want to buy another one, if there's another way:D

[ToddW]

Quick answer, call or e-mail Jasper at Portes du Ski and ask for prices etc. Ask about the price of footbeds too, since most skiers need Harb style footbeds as part of an optimal alignment package. When he sees your feet, he'll tell you if you don't need the footbeds.

Portes du Ski contact info:

Kerkweg 219C
2985 AS Ridderkerk
T: 0180 490260
E: contact@skibaan.nl

If you're going to make a 6 hour trip, consider getting a lesson on his ski deck while you're there to get more out of your travel investment.

[Robert0325]

I went there last year with my own boots. Had my alignment checked and footbeds made. From memory it was only about 70 Euros, although it could be more if you needed any specific boot modifications I guess.

[HeluvaSkier]

Why did you choose a Fischer Vacuum? Honestly, that is THE LAST boot I would select out of the current crop of high performance boots available... and I'm a Fischer guy--I ski all Fischer skis, Fischer boots (non-vacuum 150-160 plugs) and was getting free Fischer gear for awhile and have Fischer swag all over my house. I wouldn't touch the vacuum boot even if I was being paid to ski it. To further convince you... Harald HATES this boot. They break, they deform and the geometry is probably one of the most challenging to align out there (it works for me, but I'm lucky, and it took YEARS of tinkering to get it to work). IMO, get a different boot... If you're going to a HSS fitter, let them decide what you should be in before purchasing. You will be happier in the long run, trust me.

[jbotti]

Well said. I was going to say something similar. In general the whole line is to be avoided because of the abducted stance. Add to that the issues with the plastic on Vacuums and it's an even bigger problem.

[Nkster]

what I realized with the boots is, that they are very soft compared to my lange ZBs(I have the RC4 pro 150) and they feel strange. I bought them because of the vacuum tech which makes adjustments very easy. My former boot Lange ZB never fit properly, either they were too tight or too wide, but in the end i had too tight boots and deep blue feet. I don't know whether my ZB were to stiff for me or not, have no clue, how to spot whether a boot is to stiff or not.

What would you guys suggest as a boot?

jbotti, what do you mean with an "abducted" stance? Do you mean that Somatec stuff with the "neutral stance"?

[jbotti]

Two companies produced boots with an abducted stance. Nordica made the Doberman aggressor which they discontinued and Fischer who has this in the majority of their line. It means that the stance is aligned slightly bow legged and slightly open (toes slightly further apart than neutral) which they believe gives greater and faster big toe edging ability. Yes they call this Somatec. As Greg mentioned it works well for a limited numbers of skiers and makes dialing in proper alignment much more difficult.

[Obrules15]

What would you guys suggest as a boot?

My understanding is that the Lange ZB is a very good boot, so PDS might be able to work with those to prevent you having to buy a new boot.

I am fairly new to PMTS, but one of the things I did was go back to the beginning and read almost all of the forum posts. What crops up as a theme over and over again is how many people regret delaying getting a proper boot fitted at a PMTS shop. It could be a huge thread on it's own "Whoa is me, I can't believe how much I screwed myself up by thinking I knew best about my boots"

There are occasional disagreements on this forum about a lot of things, but never a dissent on PMTS shop fit boots! So as much as it hurts (I had to chuck newish stuff), it's so worth it.

Add up the money wasted on sub-par skiing days or how much extra you'll spend on passes etc. before you reach your goals. I use a misery quotient to decide my breaking point(each level of potentially saved misery is worth about $100).

Good Luck!

[jbotti]

Listening to Harald's comments over the past few years the Boots that have geometries that HSS and other HSS trained alignment pros work well with are Head race and recreational race product (RS series), Lange race and recreational race product, Dalbello race line (only as the rest of Dalbello can be problematic) and that's about it. I think there are a few Salomon boots that are fine. HH has a big issue with Atomic, Tecnica and Fischer boots. Nordica geometry in the race and rec race line is fine and they can work with it. Not sure if they still use that metal plate in the bottom of the boot that made plating the soles harder and made the boots wicked cold and if so that is a reason to avoid them.

[Obrules15]

JBotti,

What type of skier does the abducted stance/somatech boot work for? I'm having trouble visualizing the biomechanics on that one.

[jbotti]

I don't have enough personal experience with it to answer. Slightly canted out is less problematic (and obviously good for knocked kneed skiers and bad for bowlegged skiers) than the slightly open stance which works well for very few.

[DougD]

What would you guys suggest as a boot?

My understanding is that the Lange ZB is a very good boot, so PDS might be able to work with those to prevent you having to buy a new boot.

+1 Diana and Walter had no trouble making my Lange RX130s work well. New footbeds and cants were all they needed.

What crops up as a theme over and over again is how many people regret delaying getting a proper boot fitted at a PMTS shop. It could be a huge thread on it's own "Whoa is me, I can't believe how much I screwed myself up by thinking I knew best about my boots"

There are occasional disagreements on this forum about a lot of things, but never a dissent on PMTS shop fit boots! So as much as it hurts (I had to chuck newish stuff), it's so worth it.

+1 × 1,000

Depending on a skier's individual anatomy, it may be true that ANY money spent on ski gear or ski lessons is wasted money, if a PMTS fitting and alignment isn't done first. I skied for 30 years with poor alignment and fighting an old knee injury, which caused all sorts of adaptive movements that i now struggle to unlearn. PMTS alignment fixed everything... EXCEPT the bad movements. If id done it 30 years earlier, I'd be a far better skier.

A young skier can avoid all this.

Don't worry about the cost of going to PDS. Any other approach will almost certainly cost you more in the long run. If they can make the Fischers work for you, they will. If they can't, they'll say so and you'll have learned a valuable if costly lesson.