Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby jbotti » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:24 pm

Its currently a difficult question to answer. In the past this slot was filled by the IM 78, rev 80 Pro, Peak 84, Head RNR and the Head Venturi. The only one of those still being produced is the Venturi but that really is a more of a pow ski that most wont break out unless you have 12" or more. SS Speed skis anything up to 8-10 inches well and easily.
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby Obrules15 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:59 pm

jbotti wrote:It is difficult for some or even many to identify a good ski for PMTS but not for higher level PMTS coaches. .


Dude, as far as I can tell higher level PMTS coaches can walk on water, and I'm almost entirely certain Diana can levitate at will. I definitely did not mean they were "most people" :)
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby jbotti » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:54 am

I asked HH this morning about any midfat skis they have found and like. His response was basically none. He did include the Kastle MX 78 in the list of skis that he had liked in the past like the IM/Peak 78 and the Movement Jam. Kastle's are very nicely made skis and they are beautiful on hard snow. I personally find them a little stiffer than I want off piste. He did reiterate how much he likes the Dynastar Speedzone 14 and he thinks of it as an all mountain ski (believe its 72mm underfoot). He also said that they aren't carrying the Dynastar's because they don't want to carry Look bindings (and I believe the SZ 14 is a system binding).

So there you have it. Its pretty lean out there and the ski cos may be more confused than the ski buying public which is perhaps not too surprising when you realize how tough a business they are all in.

It is however good time to reiterate that in 90% of the conditions that most people ski in (including off piste) that 66-72MM underfoot ski like the TT 80, SS Speed, SZ 14, ISL non RD, SS, SS Kers etc is almost always the better tool in that it responds quickly to tipping and is harder to pivot than a fatter ski. Hence if we want to continue using correct PMTS movements off piste these are the superior tools.

I like everyone else have always wanted that ski that will make more difficult off piste conditions ski easier. I have a large collection of skis to prove that I have searched. In the end it is always better movements that make off piste skiing easier and those movements are mostly easier on the above mentioned skis. (and yes there are some exceptions like 3 feet of heavy Tahoe or PNW snow and a few other conditions generally involving lower angle/ less steep terrain where more float helps a ton.

And now for the really good news: We are only weeks away from when the first Colorado resorts will open. Its is always such a joy to have the new ski season upon us!
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby CO_Steve » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:42 pm

I've also left a trail of 72-80 underfoot all mountain rejects over the last few years. Of the many failures I've had a couple that almost get there for me. I'm currently hoarding the Stockli Rotor 76 as my go anywhere ski. I may have the last two pair on the planet but they come close for me as long as it's not too firm. YMMV.
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby ToddW » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:18 pm

Who needs fat skis over 70mm? Ski like Diana -- levitate at will.
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby DougD » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:55 am

I've still got my K2 Fours if anyone's interested! :wink:

Seriously, as John said, I'm pretty much down to a one ski quiver: the SS Speeds. They're versatile enough for any conditions an Eastern skier is likely to encounter. At camp last year (A Basin) we got 5-10" of new snow every day and they had no problems. (My technique? That's another matter.) More importantly, they respond quickly and reliably to PMTS movements, so they reinforce learning. Oh... they're also a joy to ski.

I just put my only other skis on consignment at a local shop (Atomic Blackeye Ti, a midfat all mountain ski). They respond to PMTS movements up to a point, but, they have a stiff mid-section and excessive tail rocker. This makes it impossible to finish a turn and release when YOU want to. The stance ski tail just lets go into a skid. Unless you're making only snappy, fall line turns, that tail rocker injects some rotation into every turn. Not good for PMTS skiing.

The SS Speeds are softer flexing, but the flex PATTERN is even from tip to tail. They hold until YOU release them, without skidding. If I run into 18" of PNW, I'll just levitate!
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby theorist » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:16 pm

Max_501 wrote:I rarely ski anything over 95mm and we have deep heavy snow out here.

What's the widest ski you use?
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby jbotti » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:40 pm

Max is on the road so unclear when he will get to respond but I know what he skis. The widest ski he ever takes out are his Elan 1010s which are 110 under foot. He uses them when they have very heavy PNW cement at Bachelor and he wants to ski some of the less steep/lower angle areas at Bachelor. I am guessing this happens less than 10 days per year. Most of the time he is either on his Elan SLX 170s or his Head RNR.
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby theorist » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:01 pm

Thanks!
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby theorist » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:08 pm

BTW, regarding narrow off-piste skis: I find a narrow (<70 mm) carving ski works great in up to about a foot of powder (including heavy Sierra powder), if it's sufficiently quick (I like to ski steep tight spaces) and, most importantly, sufficiently bendable (powder requires greater bendability than groomers). And for me, at 150 lbs., that degree of bendability means they can't have metal sheets. Thus my (very quick and metal-free) 170 cm X-Shape STX's (68 mm) are my go-to all-mountain skis. [Indeed, I find they work better for me in powder than my 180 cm Rock 'n Rolls, which I thus no longer use.] I also have the iSuperShape KERS, Mya 7, TT80, and Stockli Laser SC, all in 170 cm; what they have in common are: (a) two sheets of metal; and (b) they're a struggle for me in powder.

Not sure what I'll do for an all-mountain ski when my STX's wear out! It's hard to find a high-performance carving ski that doesn't use metal. Their bendability and quickness also makes them the best (easiest) mogul ski I own (the Mya 7 comes in second). [According to Head, the only non-metal carving ski they currently make is the Super Joy, and I suspect it's not in the same league as the STX; plus, at 75 mm, it's wider than I like for a carving ski.]

Though if there *were* another ski like the STX currently on the market, that could be a good mid-fat alternative for some PMTS skiers....
Last edited by theorist on Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:34 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby speedcontrol » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:45 pm

For east coast skiing 2 sheets of metal are mandatory. For your area you can benefit from much softer metal-free ski.
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby Basil j » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:56 am

Annual gear review for ski Magazine came out. top groomer hard snow skis are all in the 72mm-84mm waist width. The Dynastar's Speed Zone 12's are the narrowest at 72mm waist. Amazing to me that there is nothing narrower that a 72mm waisted ski.
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby chris719 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:51 pm

Stockli is still making <72mm skis. Fischer also in the RC4 line and in the women's line. I just bought someone a pair of Fischer Trinity skis (women's) which are 68mm and 13m @ 160. There are others I am sure, but I guess they are falling into that "race" category so they get ignored by the magazines.
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby theorist » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:34 pm

Just for fun, I went through Ski Canada's list of 2017 skis (http://skicanadamag.com/assets/tmp/1617ski_list.html), and determined the number of carving skis from each mfr. that fell into the 64-69 mm and 70-73 mm categories, respectively. I excluded FIS, mogul, junior, and touring skis (but recreational racing skis, like the Head iSL, were included in the count). Here's what I found. [N.B.: I didn't double-check my numbers, so I might be off by a bit, but this should give you an idea.] Basically, nearly everyone offers at least a few narrow carvers (but check out Ogasaka! -- though the radii on their non-SL skis tend to be a bit high); the issue is how few shops typically carry them, and thus how hard they are to demo:

MFR. 64-69 mm / 70-73 mm

Atomic 2/6
Blizzard 2/5
Dynastar 0/6
Blizzard 3/8
Fischer 4/4
Head 3/3
K2 0/1
Kastle 0/2
Line 0/0
Nordica 0/9
Ogasaka 16/4
Rossi 3/5
Salomon 1/5
Stockli 2/6
Volkl 2/12
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Re: Thoughts on this year's real skiers reviews

Postby Kiwi » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:30 am

Co Steve I also have the Stockli Rotor 76 great ski. People lament the passing of that ski.
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