Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

[jbotti]

Not sure why but my foot has gained some volume. Boots that have been fine are too tight this year. My trainer thinks its because of all the plyos and balance work I have been doing which require much more use of feet muscles. Not sure if he is right but I found myself in need of more room in my boots. In Montana where it is cold and dry things have been bearable but in Tahoe its been quite uncomfortable. I decided to grab a head RS 140 shell and see if that would work mainly for Tahoe. I tried them first with my Nordica foam liners that were foamed for my Raptor B3 boots but they were really painful. Next after conferring with Diana I re-baked some Intuition Pro Tongue liners and put them in the RS 140s. Wow, similar to my first experience with them, this is an amazing liner. 2 years ago I had some minor issues with the way they molded and I need to re-bake them and I just got lazy and went back to skiing my foam liners. This bake went perfectly and at least for me right now these liners are the best of any I have had (and I never thought anything could be better than the Nordica Foam liner). The tightness of fit around the ankle and just above it, the stiffness of that fit and the support it provides for the foot and ankle is above any other liner. It definitely hardens the ride and stiffens the whole set up. But I can easily do things in this liner that required focus and work to pull of in my other one. On hard/groomed snow the power to arc and bend a ski is just unparalleled. So I kept skiing them off piste looking for a reason why they might be too stiff or too unforgiving and I actually felt like I was skiing much better (need video to fully verify). My right foot/ankle is set wrong after a break many years ago and it is off set 13 degrees out so I have a host of issues with that side. The added support appears to have made both sides pretty close to equal and some of the compensation that I was doing on that side appears to have gone away.

Fit wise its is also rather roomy in the forefoot versus foam liners that are very tight in the forefoot. I have also been told that it is one of the warmest liners out there. I also don't think its the right liner for everyone but for me it is perfect and I am putting them in my 130s and in my 150s. Having said that the Rs 140s with this liner appear to be my new boot. Plenty of room for my feet and more performance than I was getting out of either my B2s (150s which i hard;y ever ski because of how hard they are to get on and off) or my B3s (130s). Hard to beat that combo!!

Let me also say that I have many years of skiing in a bunch of different Head boots and I know my size and i know the lasts pretty well. I would not recommend that most people do what I did (grab a shell and see if I can make it work). My assumption about the RS last just being wider was wrong as it is much tighter in the ankle bone area and I have huge ankle bones and I needed a punch which I have never needed in my B2s or B3s. I also have an ideal foot for ski boots (thin low volume feet and large ankle bones that prevent heel lift and a very low instep) which makes it easier for me to fit into a lot of race plugs easily. My wife has a very high instep and issues like that are a a huge problem in ski boots. Even with my ideal foot/feet and my knowledge of Head boots I was still taking a risk and I might have ended up with a boot that never fit or that I might have hated. My reward for taking the risk was that I now have a great set up.

For those looking for new liners and want a stiffer, higher performance set up, try the Pro Tongues. There is a reason that HH and Diana now only ski in these.

[CO_Steve]

A few years ago my son went to Harald for some new boots. After several weeks in the Head boot skiing in near unbearable pain we went back to the shop where Chris swapped him into a pair of the Dalbelos. Every time we ski together he comments that although these boots are much more comfortable he misses the performance of the Head. Last week we replaced the liners with a pair of Pro Tongues. At the end of the first day he said the performance is back to Head levels without the pain. Solid product.

[jbotti]

I forgot to mention that the cuff in the pro tongue is large and it adds to forward lean and it may be too much for some/most people. This is easily modified by cutting off the back outer on the cuff (very easy to do with an exacto knife). I usually ski with two spoilers in my boots with the foam liners. I started out with none with the Pro tongues but later in the first day I added one spoiler and it was perfect although it was fine without any (as the liner itself adds quite a bit of forward lean).

[speedcontrol]

Not sure why but my foot has gained some volume. Boots that have been fine are too tight this year. My trainer thinks its because of all the plyos and balance work I have been doing which require much more use of feet muscles. Not sure is he is right but I found myself in need of more room in my boots. In Montana where it is cold and dry things have been bearable but in Tahoe its been quite uncomfortable. I decided to grab a head RS 140 shell and see if that would work mainly for Tahoe. I tried them first with my Nordica foam liners that were foamed for my Raptor B3 boots but they were really painful. Next after conferring with Diana I re-baked some Intuition Pro Tongue liners and put them in the RS 140s. Wow, similar to my first experience with them, this is an amazing liner. 2 years ago I had some minor issues with the way they molded and I need to re-bake them and I just got lazy and went back to skiing my foam liners. This bake went perfectly and at least for me right now these liners are the best of any I have had (and I never thought anything could be better than the Nordica Foam liner). The tightness of fit around the ankle and just above it, the stiffness of that fit and the support it provides for the foot and ankle is above any other liner. It definitely hardens the ride and stiffens the whole set up. But I can easily do things in this liner that required focus and work to pull of in my other one. On hard/groomed snow the power to arc and bend a ski is just unparalleled. So I kept skiing them off piste looking for a reason why they might be too stiff or too unforgiving and I actually felt like I was skiing much better (need video to fully verify). My left foot/ankle is set wrong after a break many years ago and it is off set 13 degrees out so I have a host of issues with that side. The added support appears to have made both sides pretty close to equal and some of the compensation that I was doing on that side appears to have gone away.

Fit wise its is also rather roomy in the forefoot versus foam liners that are very tight in the forefoot. I have also been told that it is one of the warmest liners out there. I also don't think its the right liner for everyone but for me it is perfect and I am putting them in my 130s and in my 150s. Having said that the Rs 140s with this liner appear to be my new boot. Plenty of room for my feet and more performance than I was getting out of either my B2s (150s which i hard;y ever ski because of how hard they are to get on and off) or my B3s (130s). Hard to beat that combo!!

Let me also say that I have many years of skiing in a bunch of different Head boots and I know my size and i know the lasts pretty well. I would not recommend that most people do what I did (grab a shell and see if I can make it work). My assumption about the RS last just being wider was wrong as it is much tighter in the ankle bone area and I have huge ankle bones and I needed a punch which I have never needed in my B2s or B3s. I also have an ideal foot for ski boots (thin low volume feet and large ankle bones that prevent heel lift and a very low instep) which makes it easier for me to fit into a lot of race plugs easily. My wife has a very high instep and issues like that are a a huge problem in ski boots. Even with my ideal foot/feet and my knowledge of Head boots I was still taking a risk and I might have ended up with a boot that never fit or that I might have hated. My reward for taking the risk was that I now have a great set up.

For those looking for new liners and want a stiffer, higher performance set up, try the Pro Tongues. There is a reason that HH and Diana now only ski in these.

I was wondering why you don't use the stock liner from the RS 140 or the leather (laced) liner from the B2 ?

[jbotti]

Once I went to a custom foam liner I have not been able to ski in a stock liner again. Most have the same experience as several of the after market liners are vastly superior to the stock liners in boots. Some people ski the stock liners for 25-30 days until they pack out and then move to an after market liner.

There are several reasons why I like them so much better but perhaps the biggest is that when I tip aggressively to the LTE in a stock liner it hurts the side of my foot and I feel hard plastic against it. I can tip further, better, longer and with no discomfort in my Nordica foam liners or in the Intuition Pro Tongues.

[ToddW]

Same here.

I get pain around the 5th met head with b2 / b3 liners when skiing on lte. It gets really bad after a few days. The pro tongue and race foam liners both fix this while giving a much higher level of control. I can't imagine skiing on a stock raptor liner ever again.

I just dug one of the leather liners out of a closet to compare to the pro tongue and foam liners. I hadn't seen it in a year or two. The first word that came to mind was "flimsy."

[midwif]

Joining the chorus.

AFter breaking in my first nordica foam liners ( which was quite the process), they were VERY comfortable.
Got new boots and moved the liners over but decided to get new liners the following year.
Unfortunately, the fit was never as good as the first pair and 4 black big toes later, I went with Diana's suggestion to check the Pro Tongue Liner.

SO much more comfortable! And I barely needed to use my boot heaters at the short turn camp the following cold days!
I like the firmness of the liner.
Best fit to date.

[marsound]

I purchased new B3s in January from HSS. The shell was expertly dialed in by Diana, and she recommended that I ski the stock liners for the rest of the season before going to an aftermarket model like the Pro Tongue (skiing the stock ones through camp also helped identify any shell hot spots).

They seem fine, but I do notice some ankle discomfort when tipping if I don't get the liner nicely seated in the shell and on my foot/ankle and the boot tightened just right. One thing that's helped: I've been putting my boots on the standard way (not race entry) after I heat the shells for an hour (liners not in shells), then putting the liners in and plugging the boot bag in the 12V on the way to skiing (about 30-40 minute drive). Seems to help everything "mesh" better.

I'm thinking about going to race entry with heated shells. Will test before my next ski outing. Or is this a bad idea?

Hoping I can get through this season without major issues before going to an aftermarket liner...

[chrisw]

I have Nordica Doberman Pro 130's with footbed and shimmed sole plates by Harold's shop. Still have the stock liners in after something like 5 years. Noticing that it feels like my socks are bunching up at the toes of the right boot (they aren't) and doesn't seem as tight around ankles in both. I am in Vancouver area and there are a few shops between here and Whistler that sell the Intuition Pro. The discomfort is not a problem but wondering if I can improve the performance of my boots with a new liner. Thoughts?
Thanks !!!!

[jbotti]

I have Nordica Doberman Pro 130's with footbed and shimmed sole plates by Harold's shop. Still have the stock liners in after something like 5 years. Noticing that it feels like my socks are bunching up at the toes of the right boot (they aren't) and doesn't seem as tight around ankles in both. I am in Vancouver area and there are a few shops between here and Whistler that sell the Intuition Pro. The discomfort is not a problem but wondering if I can improve the performance of my boots with a new liner. Thoughts?
Thanks !!!!

Yes! Have someone trained bake them for you and help you mold them. Use toe caps and cork up your hot spots. Don't hesitate to cut the outer to the cuff if you have too much forward lean. Versus your packed out stock liner you will see a huge jump in power and performance from your boots.

[chrisw]

Thanks! I am going to give it a try.

[gaku]

How do you compare the Intuition PTL to their Plug / Race HD liners, and Zipfit's Gara? On their homepage they say the Pro Tongue and Race HD liners are for +1 cm space in the bootshell, while the Plug is for less than that. What size do you buy compared to the bootshell, a size down like the Zipfit?

And how much better is it than Lange's baked cork liner in the ZB, which I've heard may be the best not-aftermarket liner? Is it mainly how long it lasts before packing out that is the difference?

[jbotti]

Not every intuition liner is a good liner, in fact most of them suck. My daughter skis in the Race FX liner which Diana recommended for her. Its very warm which is great but she has a comfort fit in her boots and I don't think that liner is particularly high performance. Besides the FX the only other liner that HSS uses and sells is the Pro Tongue. They have in the past sold the Zipfits but I have never skied in them. Others can comment. I know nothing about the Lange liner you mention.

[jbotti]

We have a little pro tongue lust going on in Montana. I am out here with a group of guys for 5-6 days. Every good skier in the group (which includes Max 501 and Helluvaskier) is lusting after my pro tongues. One in our group bought the last one that the shop had in stock. Two more were ordered for overnight delivery on Monday.

I have not taken my boots off at lunch once (since getting my Pro Tongues) and have no cramping or pain (after10 years of having to take my boots off at lunch everyday). This is an exceptional product.

I must be getting old (and I guess that is factually correct at 56). I put my pro tongues in my old RD 130s (B3s) and there is more room for my forefoot in them with the pro tongues than with my nordica foam liners and I had the boots on for 30 minutes and I had to go change. I skied these boots for ten years. I guess ignorance can be bliss because other than lunch it never really bothered me. CLEARLY since me feet have seen the light and felt the difference there are in massive rebellion at the mere sight of a 94 last boot and if it is a 150 flex, my feet start convulsing when entering the same room as them.

I do feel giddy at times when I think about my new boots and my new set up. For those that have gotten their boot set up nailed, with comfort and amazing performance we all know there is no better feeling!!

[Roundturns]

I'm intrigued by what you have shared with us about the Pro Tongue. I plan on skiing one last time in Colorado first week of April and provided this liner is still in stock out there I might treat myself.

I bought a Zipfit liner two years ago and I abandoned efforts to make it work. Maybe I am not a great candidate for a high performance liner , that being I don't want to have to heat the shell to get my foot and liner into the boot. Can the Pro Tongue remain in the shell like a stock liner?

Also do you size the Pro Tongue at the same size as the stock liner? My boot is a 115 Head Raptor RS . Pretty tight shell fit maybe I can get a pencil or so behind my heel when I shell fit. My current fit after two seasons , maybe 50 days so far is still good actually. I got a bad habit of not leaving well enough alone , and my previous Zipfit experience makes me a bit apprehensive .