Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby marsound » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:00 pm

Nice to hear the Pro-tongues work so well.

Sorry, off topic, but I hope some video will be posted from the trip... :)

Every good skier in the group (which includes Max 501 and Helluvaskier)..
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby jbotti » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:43 pm

Roundturns wrote:I'm intrigued by what you have shared with us about the Pro Tongue. I plan on skiing one last time in Colorado first week of April and provided this liner is still in stock out there I might treat myself.

I bought a Zipfit liner two years ago and I abandoned efforts to make it work. Maybe I am not a great candidate for a high performance liner , that being I don't want to have to heat the shell to get my foot and liner into the boot. Can the Pro Tongue remain in the shell like a stock liner?

Also do you size the Pro Tongue at the same size as the stock liner? My boot is a 115 Head Raptor RS . Pretty tight shell fit maybe I can get a pencil or so behind my heel when I shell fit. My current fit after two seasons , maybe 50 days so far is still good actually. I got a bad habit of not leaving well enough alone , and my previous Zipfit experience makes me a bit apprehensive .


If you don't heat your shells there is no reason to take the pro tongues out each night. They are however heat molded and heat sensitive so you would not want to leave them in if you are using a hot gear bag. If you are in a Head boot where your BSL ends in 3 (303,313,323mm etc) the head mondo size (26,27, 28 etc) is the same liner size in the Pro Tongue.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby jbotti » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:44 pm

Max and Heluva may post some video.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby Roundturns » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:46 am

Appreciate the info and how to size the liner. Maybe I will pack a lunch to eat on the hill, eat cheap at night and buy a Pro Tongue LIner on this trip with the savings. Sooner or later I have to believe my stock liners are going to pack out enough to change the very good fit I have now.

But I think I read the stock liner in the Head Rebel is made with "closed foam" which preserves initial fit longer?
Maybe I am confused on this. Anyway, I respect your experience with all this and what you have shared with us and if you're sold on the Pro Tongue after all your liner experiences that represents a very valid endorsement IMHO.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby dan.boisvert » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:06 am

jbotti wrote:We have a little pro tongue lust going on in Montana. I am out here with a group of guys for 5-6 days. Every good skier in the group (which includes Max 501 and Helluvaskier) is lusting after my pro tongues. One in our group bought the last one that the shop had in stock. Two more were ordered for overnight delivery on Monday.

If anybody wants/needs a pair of 27's, I've got a twice-baked pair up for grabs. I think I'm the exception that proves the rule that these are awesome for everybody. :D
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby Roundturns » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:56 pm

Curious what your ProTongue experience was and the issue you encountered making them fit well? I am not challenging anything that has been shared with us regarding how great these liners are, but inherent to boot fitting at least for me few things are seamless as much as I want them to be.
Thanks
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby dan.boisvert » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:49 pm

Roundturns wrote:Curious what your ProTongue experience was and the issue you encountered making them fit well? I am not challenging anything that has been shared with us regarding how great these liners are, but inherent to boot fitting at least for me few things are seamless as much as I want them to be.
Thanks

To start, my only motivation for getting them was to have warmer feet on cold days; I was happy with the way the stock liners in my B2's skied. The 27's were from a local shop that sold me a size that was too big and screwed up the molding process, so they were unskiable for me. HSS tried remolding them for me when I was there in January, but they were just too big. They put me in a 26, which was the right size, but I ended up with pain in/around my left ankle that I could only stand for a couple hours at a time. We tried letting them break in a bit during the first few days of camp and removing some material around the problem region, but the pain just moved around, and didn't go away.

Diana said I was the first person she'd ever seen have that kind of problem, and she's put a ton of people in these. I'm still not sure what exactly happened, but I wasn't so excited about how the right foot felt that I wanted to endure any more mornings of pain with the left, so gave up and bought Lenz heated socks to use on cold days. Those are awesome, btw.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby Roundturns » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:10 pm

As follow up, I was at Vail this past week and went to a shop that carried Intuition liners but they did not have any Pro Tongues . Need to stop at HH's shop enroute from airport to Vail but I have been taking the shuttle and not renting a car in recent trips.

Next December I will call ahead and stop in at Dumont and pull the triggrer.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby jbotti » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:00 pm

I just came back from skiing a few days in Montana in my pro tongues. Temps were quite cold, in the -10F- +5F range and two of the days had some decent amount of wind (so wind chill in the -15-20F range). Let me first say that I generally don't have much issue keeping my extremities warm (I usually take my gloves off on lift rides so they won't sweat and did so in these cold temps) but with a boot glove my feet were warm and toasty all day without a hint of cold on my toes. I realize that might not be saying that much but I would have felt some cold in my old foam liners. Perhaps of more relevance was my ski buddy who really struggles with cold feet and hands. He also had the pro Tongues and boot gloves and both days did not have to turn on his hotronics until after lunch. Its a really warm liner.

I cant say enough about how they ski and are by far the most powerful liners I have ever had.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby DougD » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:48 am

I got Pro Tongues just before camp last year. I developed a small hot spot on the front of one shin. Wasnt able to identify anything in the liner or shell that would cause it, so I'm hoping it was temporary. Ill find out next week, as I'm joining Skijim's Killington gang for my first turns of the new season.

Other than this minor issue, I second everything jbotti has said. They're warm, comfortable and far more responsive and stable than the (pretty decent) Lange stock liners.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby Jjmdane » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:26 am

I completely agree with Jbotti about the pro tongues. I put them in some Lange rs 140s, which was not exactly an unresponsive boot as it was,but the difference in performance was amazing. Every sensation is intensified in a good way,much easier to get recentered and much easier to get foot pullback. My tipping feels much stronger,("feels" being the operative word as I have no video), and as Jbotti relates, you can do things that you used to have to think about without thinking. Over a three day period of instructing ,which went from 45F rain and soft snow bordering on mank ,to inverted hockey rinks the next day, and finally blissful blowing man made at 0F, the boots felt great.(God, our NE winters suck)Did not get to do any bumps though. They definitely stiffen the boot feeling but you get used to it quickly.
I did have to have them baked twice and use large toe inserts in ski socks to get the toe box right.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby jbotti » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:15 pm

I learned a few new things about the pro tongues. Originally I had thought that it was not a liner that would take up a lot of extra space in the boot. I was wrong about that. My wife has the tiniest foot known to man. She skis in a 21 tecnica boot (BSL of 260) and its still too large for her foot. She has been skiing in a Nordica foam liner size 22 in the 21 boot for the past several seasons. She still has some forefoot issues with the foam liners so we decided to try a pair of Pro Tongues (used size 22 because they don't make a 21). We baked them with minimum buckle pressure for maximum volume and they came out close to un-skiable they were so tight. We did not think this was possible. We re-baked a second time with good buckle pressure over the forefoot (where the big problem was) and we ended up with a really snug but comfortable fit for her.

The liner offers a wide array of tightness of fit that can be dialed in with a second baking. After seeing how tight the first baking was I don't recommend that anyone go that tight but this liner will take up space if needed and you can dial in a very snug fit with someone who knows what they are doing. I baked a new pair for myself and made the same mistake that my wife did but mine are skiable just very tight. I will probably re-bake but I love that super tight glove like fit.

This was something I only thought was possible foam liners. And these ski way better than foam.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby A.L.E » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:07 am

I had a problem with my Pro Tongues relating to length. I'd not had length issues with my Nordicas and a toe cap was used during the new liner fitting process but the Pro Tongues ended up being unbearably tight on my toes. No amount of dorsiflexion/pullback elevated the issue, my toes were crunched. I had them fitted at the end of last season and didn't ski again until a recent two-week ski trip. Stupidly I hadn't been in the boots during the offseason.

The pain after the first two days made skiing impossible, so I took to the pro tongues with a pair of scissors and cut out the toe ends of the liners and taped them up. That radical surgery sorted the problem. I can get cold feet but any cold issues were kept under control by my Hotronics.

On checking, I could confirm that the shell size matched the Pro Tongue size. So not sure what the problem is.

Aside from the issue with the tight toes, which was fixed by day three, I found the first 5 days were pretty brutal bedding in the liners. Thereafter they were reasonably comfortable and as others have said, performance wise they are fantastic.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby marsound » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:17 am

Just got Pro Tongues last month from HSS. After working out the fitting (cutting the back foam, stretching the toe box) they've been great.

One thing I've noticed in comparison to a stock liner is that you need to be very precise with boot buckling. It's very easy to get too tight with just one extra twist of the cam - I'm guessing this is due to the stiffness. I've found starting with them on the loose side for a warm up run helps them settle in to the shell, and I can then tighten them down a little more where needed and I'm good for the day.
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Re: Re-Visiting the Intuition Pro Tongue Liner

Postby jbotti » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:30 pm

marsound wrote:Just got Pro Tongues last month from HSS. After working out the fitting (cutting the back foam, stretching the toe box) they've been great.

One thing I've noticed in comparison to a stock liner is that you need to be very precise with boot buckling. It's very easy to get too tight with just one extra twist of the cam - I'm guessing this is due to the stiffness. I've found starting with them on the loose side for a warm up run helps them settle in to the shell, and I can then tighten them down a little more where needed and I'm good for the day.


Yes I have found the same thing. Starting loose and gentle and then adding tension/pressure as the day wears on is the right move. If it's cold and I can buckle tighter to start and I find I never have to add to that. If its warmer (upper 20's into the mid 30's or higher) I start with limited pressure and add some if needed later in that day. The liner is so powerful and supportive they don't need to be buckled super tight.
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