AGAINER

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AGAINER

Postby sgarrozzo » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:23 am

I wonder if this equipment can be interesting and it works really well as also says someone who has tried it here in Italy. Among other things, you can try it to InterTux. If Harald had known before he could give us a technical opinion on the matter. But if someone can conctat him Today.... why not?



http://www.againer-ski.com/page.php?catid=6&langid=1
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Re: AGAINER

Postby DougD » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:29 am

The AGAINER supports and actively boosts leg-extending movements. Since extension undermines PMTS movements during most phases of the turn, constant boosting of extension forces would not usually be recommended.

Aged or injured legs that are too weak to extend by themselves when needed might benefit from such a device. However, that's a medical issue more than a ski technique one. A doctor should advise whether such a person should be skiing at all.

For healthy skiers, the AGAINER appears incompatible with PMTS and could actually encourage TTS-like skiing.
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Re: AGAINER

Postby sgarrozzo » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:38 am

Hi Doug,

Now I try to translate with the help of google a small part of the test that you can see here:


http://www.skiforum.it/forum/showthread ... ost1649418

Works well !!
I expected a muscular support during bending and stretching and then a lower leg strain in the face of the same result, but the real surprise is the stability of the ski and the support to the lumbosacral area where I do not feel any fatigue in the face of centrality perfect ...

I insist, I feel a little bit of everything and becomes more and more enjoyable, although I must now learn how to dose the work with the inside leg and just after 3 slope I find the exact adjustments, moreover very personal belief based on skiing and sizes .....
even to get up to the ski lift that takes us back to the cable car, and what about ..very comfortable because the two dampers support me back and the musclar fatigue is very low here as well as in all curves .....

but the real surprise is when I put the short skis, 1 and 25cm .... I never loved it for the centrality problems .... and instead sequences fast on tight radius and quietly some bend at high speed without any deburring.

apart from the last descent where I really exaggerated in the lean and I fell down.. but also that the contraption reveals to be an holy hand because in the fall clearly I feel the strong protection around the knee ....

I stop after 4 hours as if I had started from 10 minutes .... I remove all in 2 minutes and descend satisfied ...

vote: 9 pending the trousers for a 10 and praise

target:

skier is evolving, maybe in there with age, or advanced that want sneaky way down throughout the day, and maybe he wants to go beyond their limits ... not to mention arthritis, low back pain, with prostheses and companionship singer ..... gentlemen this is a tool that you and I can ski over the years ... and physical problems ..... but also for those (and this is now the most interesting thing) wants to refine the gesture, both in the management of the edge in the transition between a curve and the other where the againer accompanies the grand mass over the feet
favoring the moment and therefore the forces in a very nice, I think avoiding many messes that we develop at this stage .... in short a lapel educational ...
kudos to the designers, of course goes tried and you can not buy sight unseen but, at least for our area, we will try to present it as it does for the ski test, making it available to anyone who wants to try it ....

End of the test






Maybe not the best for PMTS use, but I think that worth a try.

Sorry for my great English.
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Re: AGAINER

Postby DougD » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:39 am

Hi sgarrozzo,

Please don't apologize for your English. It's better than my Italian! :)

The problem with this review, like most reviews, is that we do not know how the reviewer skis. Does he use PMTS movements?
apart from the last descent where I really exaggerated in the lean and I fell down..
PMTS skiers do not "lean". If an equipment reviewer does not use PMTS movements, his review has no value for PMTS skiing.


He also said...
skier is evolving, maybe in there with age, or advanced that want sneaky way down throughout the day, and maybe he wants to go beyond their limits ... not to mention arthritis, low back pain, with prostheses and companionship singer ..... gentlemen this is a tool that you and I can ski over the years ... and physical problems .....
I said this too. The AGAINER may help a skier with physical problems or injuries. But he should consult his doctor first, because this is a medical question as much as a skiing question.


Finally, he said...
...but also for those (and this is now the most interesting thing) wants to refine the gesture, both in the management of the edge in the transition between a curve and the other where the againer accompanies the grand mass over the feet
favoring the moment and therefore the forces in a very nice, I think avoiding many messes that we develop at this stage ....
Wrong! A machine that extends the legs will not refine management of the edges during transition. Harald has posted 1,000 times that the legs must be flexing during transition, NOT extending. This skier does not use PMTS movements. His idea of good skiing is not what we learn on this forum.

Ciao!
Doug
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Re: AGAINER

Postby sgarrozzo » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:32 am

Sorry for the "lean" but it is my free translation and interpretation.
He knows the PMTS. And skied PMTS. It 'a friend of Federico. You Know? A friend of HH. But after a PMTS 's period now he is back skiing Italian. Jam Session School. Now I ask him what you say about a strictly PMTS use. I'm a fool. I could have thought of that before. :mrgreen:


forgetting....

Ciao Doug
Last edited by sgarrozzo on Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AGAINER

Postby DougD » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:18 am

Review the comments from Harald, Federico and Geoffda from your own thread about Italian Jam Session skiing, http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3445.
Some of it resembles PMTS but some does not. In particular, there was much releasing by extending, which is not PMTS but is what the AGAINER supports.

If this skier tried PMTS but quit, you'd get a better PMTS opinion from Federico (or Harald, of course).
Last edited by DougD on Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AGAINER

Postby sgarrozzo » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:29 am

DougD wrote:So, review the comments from Harald, Federico and Geoffda from your own thread about Italian Jam Session skiing, http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3445.
Some of it resembles PMTS but some does not. In particular, there was too much releasing by extending, which is not PMTS but is what the AGAINER supports.

If this skier tried PMTS but quit, I think you'd get a better PMTS opinion from Federico (or Harald, of course).




Yes, but Federico disappeared. In fact I posted here also to have the opinion of HH....... if he will give an opinion. When will :D
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Re: AGAINER

Postby sgarrozzo » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:37 am

Done .....

He told me that he thinks it does not work.
Actually thinking it should work on the contrary, but I doubt that would have a positive effect. :D
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Re: AGAINER

Postby Hobbit » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:14 am

Similar devices already exist and we see a lot of old style shock absorbers attached to the specialized ski pants. They even sell special ski poles so that the detached shock absorber hides inside the ski pole when you don't need it or sit on the chairlift.

I believe this device operation principles promotes the TTS type turns. In TTS they often stay low until the transition and then pop up. The stored energy in shock absorber (similar to spring release action) would help you to do a much better pop up move. It will also make it much easier to resist the forces of the turn while keeping the leg flexed in the phase of the TTS turn (before transition) where PMTS have us the leg extended. In PMTS we transition by relaxing and flexing the extended stance leg. The shock absorber in such case will resist relaxation and will make flexing more difficult.
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