i.SS Speed vs SLX Fusion vs SL Fusion vs ?

[DougD]

Hi all,

I'm looking to add a good PMTS ski to my quiver, as my existing Atomics don't fully respond to PMTS movements. Hope to demo before buying, but I'd appreciate suggestions for skis which might suit me and why.

About me...
60 yo male, skiing for 30 (5 years younger than HH and expect to remain so.. can't use age as an excuse! )
5' 10", 130 lb (a Featherweight, literally)
Have mastered (I think) ACBAES1 and some of ACBAES2, except that I need more (flexion, tipping, CA, CB... you know, more of everything)
Ski mostly in New England, plus 1-2 weeks out West each season
Ski all mountain & all conditions (exception: I avoid "trails" where if you screw up the mandatory air, you die plastered on a rock)

Wants/Likes/Dislikes
Frontside oriented ski that will support PMTS drills & movements to whatever level I can attain
Superb edgehold on ice (not wimpy CO ice, real VT ice )
No speed limit, or as high as is reasonable on public slopes... I dislike nervous, squirrelly skis
Fun in bumps or trees, as I'm liable to ski them at any time
Less concerned about deeper powder or crud... one of my Atomic skis is good in those conditions (where its PMTS shortcomings are less noticeable)

So, what's amiss with the Atomics?

Nomad Blackeye Ti @ 167cm (tuned 1d/3d, tried 0.5d/3d but it made them too grabby)
Good sidecountry ski, versatile in funky snow. Decent turning radius for PMTS (14.3m) but their heavy weight and 81mm waist make them slower than ideal for tipping. My long legs help me get them up on edge eventually and, once there, the stance ski responds beautifully through the first 2/3 of the turn. But it fails in the bottom third due to excessive tail rocker. The floppy tail robs them of all snap, as a fully loaded and arcing ski will wash out just at the point where you'd like to harness that energy to release. This is screwing up my transitions and it's frustrating, especially as I've skied on race skis that hold on until I tell them to let go.

D2 VLF 75 @ 166cm (also tuned 1d/3d)
A slalom-like ski... sorta. Good turning radius for PMTS (13m) and a reasonably narrow waist (75mm), but they're heavy and stiff - no rocker here - and the "D2" means Double Deck, so it takes work to tip them high enough. Once they're engaged they slice ice like razors, but I don't weigh enough or have the strength to bend them into clean arcs at less than SL speeds. At speed on hardpack they do short radius PMTS turns okay with some zing into the next turn, but at slow speeds they're clumsy and there's too much unavoidable skidding or grabbing. They wander in medium or long radius turns and of course that stiffness means death in bumps... I might as well be on a pair of 2x4s. I got them at a killer price and they only have about 10 days on them... anyone wanna make an offer?

What have I tried?
Just one, but clearly one of the best. I demoed i.SuperShape Speeds in Granby last month while my partner was attending the Green/Blue camp. (Camp was a huge success BTW... his skiing ability, enthusiasm and confidence have skyrocketed!) Diana put me on the 163cm after learning that I really don't weigh anything. They were (as many of you know) fantastic! Easy to make every PMTS move I tried, as slow as I wanted, good edgehold, instantly responsive without being twitchy, plenty of snap at the end of the turn to support an energetic release, fun in the bumps (at least the easy ones at Granby), happy at any speed I could attain there. They obviously love cranking clean, short-radius arcs all day long, but they also made medium-long radius turns without wandering all over the hill, which happily surprised me. They didn't handle windblasted/refrozen crud as effortlessly as the Blackeyes, but no one would expect them to.

Given all the above, should I demo the Elan SLX Fusion? Or, given my light weight, the softer SL Fusion? Or something else? I'd especially enjoy input from anyone who's compared the i.SS Speed to the Elans (or similar).

[Max_501]

What have I tried?
Just one, but clearly one of the best. I demoed i.SuperShape Speeds in Granby last month while my partner was attending the Green/Blue camp. (Camp was a huge success BTW... his skiing ability, enthusiasm and confidence have skyrocketed!) Diana put me on the 163cm after learning that I really don't weigh anything. They were (as many of you know) fantastic! Easy to make every PMTS move I tried, as slow as I wanted, good edgehold, instantly responsive without being twitchy, plenty of snap at the end of the turn to support an energetic release, fun in the bumps (at least the easy ones at Granby), happy at any speed I could attain there. They obviously love cranking clean, short-radius arcs all day long, but they also made medium-long radius turns without wandering all over the hill, which happily surprised me. They didn't handle windblasted/refrozen crud as effortlessly as the Blackeyes, but no one would expect them to.

Given that review I'm surprised you are still looking!

[DougD]

Lol, thanks for the reality check, Max.

Bought my first serious skis (an Atomic soft slalom, oddly enough) around 1990 after a successful demo. The moment I strapped them on, my skiing took a quantum leap. I was dithering until my friends whacked me on the head.

Also bought K2 Fours in their intro season after two remarkably good demo's.

Neither of those skis ever disappointed, so...

[speedcontrol]

In my opinion you don't need to make things very complicated. You know the best PMTS gear out there. Just pick the model that best matches your ability level and the place and snow conditions you ski most often.That's it . You can't go wrong.

[DougD]

In my opinion you don't need to make things very complicated. You know the best PMTS gear out there. Just pick the model that best matches your ability level and the place and snow conditions you ski most often.That's it . You can't go wrong.

But that's just it... I don't necessarily know the best PMTS gear out there. I've only skied the SS Speeds. While they certainly match my ability level and the snow conditions I usually ski, I've no idea how the Elans (or other, similar skis) compare.

Fully agree that I can't go wrong with the SS Speeds, but could I go even more right with something else? Comparisons by those who've skied both are of interest. This isn't a small purchase for me.

[jbotti]

If I was buying a ski for a quiver I would buy the SLX or the SL. Awesome carver (I have only skied the SLX). If I was getting one ski I would get the SS Speed. The other carver to consider is the WC Rebel ISL sandwich (non RD). Great ski and slightly softer and more user friendly than the SLX. Also a better ski in a quiver than as a solo act.

[DougD]

That's an insightful take on how to distinguish between these models. Thanks, jbotti.

[Basil j]

Don't assume the SL is an easier ski to ski than the SLX. SLX had 2 layers of titanium but a softer wood core lay up. I tried both last year and found the SLX a better overall quick turning ski that flexes easier than the SL. SLX is probably more torsionally rigid, giving it it's higher race status. An Elan rep told me the SLX is the better selling ski because it is more versatile and more user friendly than the SL

[DougD]

... sounds like a ski in search of a customer.

[Eiszapfen]

I tested the iSpeed (170) and the iSl (165) the last two days. I liked them both, especially the edge hold on ice of the iSl was amazing. I also noticed that the iSl is heavier and seems to be a bit more stable at higher speeds.
Which one would you take if you bought one of them? I'm a PMTS Novice (182cm and 70 kg).
I also think about buying the latest model second hand from a rental shop. The owner told me that nowadays the skies are far from being worn out after one season of rental. I can imagine that this is true for the iSL, but is it the same with the iSpeed?

[DougD]

All,

I've settled on the i.SS Speeds @ 163. Thanks to all, especially to jbotti for the quiver vs. one ski insight and to Max for the knock on the head. (I'm learning to enjoy those. Like the proverbial hammer, it feels really good when it stops. )

To Eiszapfen,

Edgehold on ice and stability at speed are not core requirements when choosing a PMTS learning ski. I've skied on many race skis that hold like death on ice and are stable even at terrifying speeds, but most are useless for learning PMTS movements.

What you need is a ski that you can easily bend into a clean arc using PMTS movements at very slow speeds. Your weight (just 10kg heavier than mine) suggests that the lighter, more flexible i.SS Speed might be the better choice for a PMTS novice. However, as you have the ability to demo, why not try them both again with that specific focus? If you can reliably make Phantom turns at 2mph on the bunny slope with the i.SL, great. If not, they may impair your progress and the i.SS Speeds might be a better choice for your development.

[Eiszapfen]

Thanks Doug.
I also went for the iSS Speed (170). The ski is definitely easier to bend and I found it to be more versatile than the i SL.

[DougD]

UPDATE

Got the SS Speeds + PRD bindings and hit a perfect ski testing day at Stowe last Saturday.

The base was VT firm. Groomer corduroy and old bumps had thawed to translucency, then refrozen hard. Stowe was hosting the annual Sugar Slalom (SR, U21, U18, U16, U14, U12, U10, U8) and the bulletproof course held up from first bib to last.

OTOH, it snowed heavily all morning with 30+ mph winds - near blizzard conditions. The SL course is on an exposed trail, so nothing accumulated there or on other wind-blasted exposures. Perfect for the racers. In more sheltered spots, new snow accumulated from 2-10" depending on where the wind dropped it. It was a real conditions smorgasbord... I overheard a Western skier whining that he was NEVER skiing in the East again.

On most runs I skied a mix of new powder, tracked out powder, soft bumps, re-frozen bumps and re-frozen corduroy. Conditions changed from one extreme to another on every turn and even mid-turn. I've rarely experienced a better day for testing ski (or skier) versatility.

The Speeds handled everything. In bumps and powder they were almost as friendly as my (81mm, rockered) Atomic Nomad Blackeye Ti's. When arcing turns on ice they were both quicker (66mm) and more responsive (no rocker that matters). Unlike the Blackeye's (which have excessive tail rocker), the Speeds helped me use the energy stored in a bent, outside ski to release and move actively into the next turn. Great fun.

Even more important, the more I conciously emphasized PMTS movements the better the Speeds performed. For the first time ever, I consciously tried for big vertical separation of my feet (ankle rivet of my Free boot brushing up my Stance boot and beyond, as high as my knee). Doing this for the first time while arcing turns on ice takes some nerve. If the stance ski lets go you're in for an unpleasant ride.

But of course it didn't. Skied with 100% commitment to the stance ski, tons of tipping (enabled by getting the Free Foot up and out of the way) and ZERO pushing/twisting of the Stance ski, the Speeds arced cleanly on the ice just as happily as on the soft stuff. That was such fun I did the run three times, trying to dial in the new movements.

No video, sorry. It was snowing too hard for visibility and my partner hasn't progressed enough in PMTS to be skiing many runs in such challenging, changeable conditions. It would just throw him into defensive mode and derail his progress.

In summary, just like PMTS, the Speeds are enormously versatile, as Jbotti described. This was a day when a one ski quiver was needed for every run, and they responded.

P.S. Some of the racers were carrying two boards, their race SL and an fatter (but not FAT) all mountain ski. Also saw many non-racers on true fat skis. Laughable, since at least half of every trail was blown off and bulletproof. They were probably sliding sideways half the day.