Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

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Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby zeK » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:30 am

Hi guys I have a thread over in the MA section. http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4624 With my new passion for skiing I decided to go out an buy the most expensive gear for All Mountain skiing and obviously I ended up making a huge mistake. I ended up purchasing Volki VWERKS RTM 176 CM
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along with Salomon Xpro 100 Custom Shell boots(which you can not even change the canter for because I am knock kneed)

It was boxing day when I got these so even with 40% off I ended up spending almost 2000$ of gear. After bumping into PMTS around mid January I realized it is the way I want to learn skiing. Starting off with the youtube videos, then Haralds Evideos, then the forums I became addicted. Soon enough I realized that learning PMTS on this 18m turn radius ski with knock kneed boots is actually quite problematic.

So I come here to you guys for some advice on which skis and boots I should invest in(I will probably by a used a ski)

Option 1 http://www.kijiji.ca/v-ski/ottawa/volkl-rtm-73-all-mountain-159-ski-with-marker-3motion-binding/1053581448?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
Option 2 http://www.kijiji.ca/v-ski/gatineau/ski-rossignol-avenger-76-ti/1051820125?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Also please name some that would be the best to learn PMTS on.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby midwif » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:33 am

I am probably the next to last person who should give you advice, but I do know that Volkl skis are deemed too burly and stiff for learning pmts on.
Rossignol rarely gets a good mention, though there may be specific models which make the pmts grade.
Many Head skis are pmts preferred.
Scan the forum for suggestions or just ask which Head ski would be suggested to learn on.
Some Fischers might make the grade.
Some Elan models have good reputations and Kastle, which is VERY expensive.

Instead of posting the pics of one you have found, get suggestions from the guys and focus on those brands.
Someone on the forum may even have a ski to sell to you.

Lynn
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby Mac » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:20 am

On the bright side, you probably won't have any trouble selling the Volkl's, there's plenty of buyers out there who will eat them up. They don't care if they ski worth a ---- or not, they just want them. I often wonder when I see people skiing on Volkl's if they ever bothered to try anything else before they bought them. My guess is probably not. Put them up for sale over on Epic, some ski instructor will probably snatch them up.
Ask a question on what ski to buy, and you will get more advice than you can possibly sort through. But midwif has given you some excellent starting points. When you say you have a new found passion for skiing, it tells me you don't have a lot of miles under your boots. Just remember that you don't have to spend a ton of money to get a good pair of skis that will suit your needs. Far better to find the right one for you. Take the good advice that you will get here on the Forum, and go out and demo some skis if you can. That's really the best recipe for success.
Good luck
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby midwif » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:57 am

Further down on this topic page, there are/were a pair of Mya 7's in 170cm.
Though they are a woman's ski, there are a few men, notably Harald who love them and ordered in the hard to get size 170.
Now, this I know a bit about.
I have these skis after demo'ing last year.
The most responsive, lovely skis I have ever been on. GREAT FOR IMPLEMENTING PMTS movements.

But, as most threads about boots will tell you, they are THE MOST IMPORTANT piece of equipment to have right!
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby DougD » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:41 am

Good ideas from midwif and Mac.

How much do you weigh? This impacts the length and stiffness of the skis that will work well for you.

In general, PMTS movements are learned easiest, fastest and most effectively on skis having a waist width <70mm. Both the skis you linked are wider than that and your Volkls are even wider - 84mm. The wider the ski the more s-l-o-w-l-y it reacts to tipping movements.
Last edited by DougD on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby VicP » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:52 am

midwif wrote:... but I do know that Volkl skis are deemed too burly and stiff for learning pmts on. ...

All, some, which ones?

Mac wrote:On the bright side, you probably won't have any trouble selling the Volkl's, there's plenty of buyers out there who will eat them up. They don't care if they ski worth a ---- or not, they just want them. I often wonder when I see people skiing on Volkl's if they ever bothered to try anything else before they bought them. My guess is probably not.

Any particular reason for discounting Volkls - anecdotal or otherwise? My experience and understanding is that different brands make much less difference than ski types (wide/narrow, "frontside"/powder, stiff/soft, etc.). The Volkl Racetiger Slaloms (Speedwall UVO) have gotten great reviews (Realskiers) and on paper would seem to be excellent PMTS skis, albeit for more advanced skiers - in league with other slalom skis like the Head Rebels and others from Elan and Fischer. Is the Volkl RTM line really that different from the Head Rev line (or whatever is comparable)?

I would suspect the OP may have a mismatch with boots and fitting (possibly brand/model -different lasts, size/fit, setup, alignment, etc.) - the MOST important link in ski equipment and possibly TOO much ski (length and waist width) for beginning PMTS - depending on the OP's size and ability. The OP's first step should be to see a good boot fitter - one that is PMTS savvy if learning PMTS is the goal - as it should be. Next would be a ski size and type appropriate to the OP's ability to learn PMTS on. I seriously doubt the ski brand is the main problem.

Not trying to flame - just looking for substantiated information from people who have skied Volkls - demo or otherwise. I know that Volkl tennis racquets are very underestimated but are some of the best (IMO - the best) available - I have four of them and have stopped using anything else.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby zeK » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:30 pm

I am 80 kilos 185cm 6'0 foot.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby Mac » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:31 pm

My opinion is based solely on my own personal experience. I used to ski Volkl all the time until they forgot how to make a decent ski. This is going back to the days of the P 30's, P 40's, G 31's, all great skis. After that, they went down the toilet. They were bought and sold so many times that you needed a score card to keep track. The days of harvesting their own cores from some magical forest are long gone. I don't have the time to list all the bad experiences I've had with them since, but there have been a lot. I've been skiing Head skis since 2003, and I've been totally happy with them. Every once in a while I've gone back and demoed a pair of Volkl's from time to time, and can honestly say that the ones I've tried were some of the worst skis I've ever had on my feet. I've even brought some friends with me to try them, and their opinion was pretty much the same. But that's just my experience. Take it FWIW.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby Max_501 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:09 pm

VicP wrote:My experience and understanding is that different brands make much less difference than ski types (wide/narrow, "frontside"/powder, stiff/soft, etc.).


Brand may not matter but the construction and flex pattern does.

VicP wrote:The Volkl Racetiger Slaloms (Speedwall UVO) have gotten great reviews (Realskiers) and on paper would seem to be excellent PMTS skis...


Relevance of reviews from non-PMTS sources was covered in December-

Max_501 wrote:Generally we don't care what the reviews sites say because we don't know how the reviewers ski.


VicP wrote:Not trying to flame - just looking for substantiated information from people who have skied Volkls - demo or otherwise.


If you need information on Volkls and their use with PMTS please do a search of the forum.

Volkl posts on the PMTS forum

Here's one of the hits from a forum search -

h.harb wrote:I have never liked Volkl skis they make me work harder to get less.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby speedcontrol » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:32 am

Hello zeK , in my opinion the best thing for you to do is to have a look at the skis and boots for sale by HH ski shop so you will know what the best options are. You don't even need to bother looking elswhere for more volkls , rossignols, etc. A great combo for you (according to what I saw in your MA tread and according to the place you are skiing)) could be: an i speed ss + a raptor 115 rs (if they fit) or a Viper 120 ID( a little more forgiving) . If the price is an issue (to have this kind of combo) just have a look at e-bay for head boots and skis - you may find some interesting options there as well .
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby jbotti » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:58 am

If there is a brand of ski that is the Anti-PMTS it is Volkl. Their "carving" skis have tons of metal, are ridiculously stiff and even the best and heaviest PMTS skiers cannot bend them. Even worse some are so stiff in the tips that when you try to pressure the tips the ski snap back and throw you in the back seat. If you really want to learn and practice PMTS listen to what is being said about Volkl skis.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby Max_501 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:03 am

speedcontrol wrote:a raptor 115 rs (if they fit) or a Viper 120 ID( a little more forgiving) .


Probably too soft for a 175lb skier.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby midwif » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:05 am

For learning pmts you want, generally speaking, a ski that will bend easily at slower speeds. The feedback you will feel let's you know you're getting it right. While learning you don't want a ski that requires speed to come alive. Because all of us on the pmts road know speed hides a myriad of balance issues.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby DougD » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:43 am

Max_501 wrote:
speedcontrol wrote:a raptor 115 rs (if they fit) or a Viper 120 ID( a little more forgiving) .


Probably too soft for a 175lb skier.

+1

I weigh just 130lb/59kg. I'm in a (nominally) 130 flex boot and don't need or want anything softer. HH has explained that too-soft boots (i) won't transmit foot movements to the skis efficiently, and (ii) will fail to support the skier who has a momentary loss of balance.
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Re: Learning PMTS, need advice for which ski/boot to get.

Postby zeK » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:40 pm

What do you guys think of the Magnum Supershape 2015 (170cm)
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