New Boots

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New Boots

Postby gaku » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:21 pm

I'm on the hunt for a new pair of boots (and maybe a new SL / GS ski). My old jr race boots are too soft (Nordica Speed Machine 8, 100 flex) and a bit too small. I realise it's incredibly difficult to give advice on boots over the internet, but for me, I think this is the best place to go if I want advice. No shops near my hometown (Stavanger, Norway) specialises in boot fitting, to my knowledge at least.

I've been looking at a few models (and I admit I was very tempted by the Dodge boots, until I foolishly glanced at the price :p):

Head Raptor RS 130 / 115
Head Raptor B3 Rd 130
Dalbello Viper 120 ID
(http://harbskisystems.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=342)

Hero World Cup SI (http://www.rossignol.com/US/US/alpine-men-boots.html)
Rossignol Experience SI 130 (http://www.realskiers.com/BOOTS/2015-ro ... boots.html)

the Nordica Dobermann EDT 130 (http://www.bootfitters.com/reviews/2014 ... nn-edt-130)
Lange RS 130 (http://www.realskiers.com/BOOTS/2015-la ... boots.html) / 140 (http://www.bootfitters.com/reviews/2014-15/lange-rs-140)


Relevant Info:
Height: 180
Weight: 70

Foot: Neutral (maybe slightly high) longitudinal arch
Length: 42-42.5 (ca 27 cm weighted, slightly less unweighted);
Width: (relatively narrow: I tried measuring along the metatarsal arch with a soft measurement band, and got about 97-98 mm, but I'm not sure how accurate this is; when I measured from the widest point of the big toe's metatarsal and across to the little toe 90 degrees, I got 95-96 mm;)
Around, measured from the cuneoid and around: 26 cm
http://www.realskiers.com/how_to_fit_a_boot.html

Current Boots: Nordica Speed Machine 8
Skis: Elan SLX WC (2006 edition; length: 165; tip / tail / waist: 111-66-104)
Bindings: ELAN ER 17.0, DIN 6-17 RACE DIAGONALS
Injury history: ACL tear; not bothered about it generally, but regular strength training of anterior / posterior thigh muscles is paramount to minimise risk.

I greatly appreciate any help you can offer. Is there any other information I should add? Maybe pictures of my feet will help those savvy in the department suggest a boot they think would be suitable for me?
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Re: New Boots

Postby gaku » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:06 am

Just did my measurements while testing the Head Vector 125 in a local ski shop (they had to send the last pair of Raptor's from the main storage location), and my foot width seems to be 93 mm, fwiw.
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Re: New Boots

Postby jbotti » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:30 am

If your foot is 93mm wide at its widest point you should be in a 92-95m lasted boot and nothing wider. My foot is 99mm at the fifth metatarsal and I ski in the head raptor 95mm last quite comfortably. You will be swimming in anything else.
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Re: New Boots

Postby oggy » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:19 pm

jbotti, what length are your feet? The specified last width relates to some specific sole length, I believe it's 260mm. Otherwise I'd never fit in my 98mm Dobbies, as my last width is 112mm (at 283mm length).
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Re: New Boots

Postby jbotti » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:43 pm

Generally the last width is stated for a 27/27.5 mondo size boot which is what I wear (313mm BSL in the Head raptors). So in the Head Raptor in a 27.5 boot the last width is 95mm.
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Re: New Boots

Postby jbotti » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:48 pm

oggy wrote:jbotti, what length are your feet? The specified last width relates to some specific sole length, I believe it's 260mm. Otherwise I'd never fit in my 98mm Dobbies, as my last width is 112mm (at 283mm length).


It's unlikely that you fit comfortably in Dobie Pros (the 98mm last version of the Dobermans) if your foot is truly 112mm wide. A friend of mine has a foot exactly that wide and even with hours and hours of work 98mm last boots still cause him quite a bit of pain. I'm guessing that your foot wasn't measured correctly.
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Re: New Boots

Postby gaku » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:33 pm

jbotti wrote:If your foot is 93mm wide at its widest point you should be in a 92-95m lasted boot and nothing wider. My foot is 99mm at the fifth metatarsal and I ski in the head raptor 95mm last quite comfortably. You will be swimming in anything else.


Hm, in that case I'm left with these options:

http://www.racecenter.no/products/nordi ... wc-130-edt (93 mm)

http://www.racecenter.no/products/rossignol-hero-wc-za (92 mm)

Do you have any idea about the different performances of the boots / the profile they are well suited to? I know Kristoffer Henriksen skies on the Rossignol boots, and I'm of a pretty similar build.

I'll be back testing the Raptor regardless on Friday or monday -- if, alas, it is too wide for my feet, hopefully I'll go out of there with a better understanding of my feet and boot choice. I never realised, before yesterday, how bad my current boots fit me -- too short, but too wide, and too weak flex.

Edit: Are the Raptor RS and B3 RD the same when it comes to width? http://www.racecenter.no/products/head-worldcup I saw that at least the B2 (I assume the B3 is similar) for each length change of 1 (27.5, 26.5 etc) had a width change of 2 (95, 93), which means just maybe they would fit.
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Re: New Boots

Postby gaku » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:18 pm

https://www.facebook.com/KlipskoBua/pho ... =1&theater

I just love serendipitous discoveries!

A lot of Norwegian winter skiiers (Jansruud, Svindal, amonst others) and athletes seem to go there for boot fitting and adjustment, even Ted Ligety--apparently--for his Head boots! Found it thanks to this miracle: https://www.facebook.com/KlipskoBua/pos ... 1035555022

Maybe you know who they are, Harb? Or maybe it's just your all-reaching influence. :)
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Re: New Boots

Postby Erik » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:14 am

gaku wrote:Edit: Are the Raptor RS and B3 RD the same when it comes to width? http://www.racecenter.no/products/head-worldcup I saw that at least the B2 (I assume the B3 is similar) for each length change of 1 (27.5, 26.5 etc) had a width change of 2 (95, 93), which means just maybe they would fit.


The Head Raptor B3 RD is narrower (95mm) than the Head Raptor 130 RS (98mm). The B3 RD is a lower volume boot (1500cc) compared with the RS (1800cc).
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Re: New Boots

Postby oggy » Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:49 am

jbotti wrote:It's unlikely that you fit comfortably in Dobie Pros (the 98mm last version of the Dobermans) if your foot is truly 112mm wide. A friend of mine has a foot exactly that wide and even with hours and hours of work 98mm last boots still cause him quite a bit of pain. I'm guessing that your foot wasn't measured correctly.


Well, "comfortably" is a bit of a stretch ;) I do have to unbuckle them on the lift, at least in the morning, but it's tolerable. The measurement comes from a fancy machine by Boot Doc, but I have no idea how precise those things are. I was quite skeptical when I first tried them on, as they were extremely tight, but after heat molding the liner I'm extremely happy with them.
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Re: New Boots

Postby theorist » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:03 pm

How do you translate last widths in the reference size (mondo 26 or 27) to smaller boots? My R and L feet are 85 and 87 mm, respectively, at their widest, but I use a mondo 24 shell. And how useful are last widths? I've heard one very experienced bootfitter say they're used for marketing purposes, like flexes, where just as they'll quote a large number for flex to make the boot seem "high performance," they'll do the same by quoting a small number for last width. I'd like to see data from someone that's cut the clogs open and measured them to see if the mfrs. are giving us accurate numbers.
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Re: New Boots

Postby jbotti » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:27 pm

Clearly last sizes are not completely accurate. I own raptor 130s and 150s which are listed as the same last size and the 150s are substantially tighter than the 130s. My knowledge base isn't large enough to answer your question but I think most tight lasted race boots (the 92-95mm kind versus the 98mm last kind) are somewhere's around 90-92mm wide in the 24 size.
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Re: New Boots

Postby theorist » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:10 pm

gaku wrote:Hm, in that case I'm left with these options:

http://www.racecenter.no/products/nordi ... wc-130-edt (93 mm)

http://www.racecenter.no/products/rossignol-hero-wc-za (92 mm)

FYI, the Rossi race boots are all Langes with Rossi graphics. [Rossi owns Lange.]
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Re: New Boots

Postby theorist » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:23 pm

jbotti wrote:Clearly last sizes are not completely accurate. I own raptor 130s and 150s which are listed as the same last size and the 150s are substantially tighter than the 130s. My knowledge base isn't large enough to answer your question but I think most tight lasted race boots (the 92-95mm kind versus the 98mm last kind) are somewhere's around 90-92mm wide in the 24 size.


Interesting; that would suggest I need a very narrow boot. OTOH, I don't recall having width issues -- I think my width is about average. My main fitting issue is my high instep and the typical foot curvature that goes along with it. Any suggestions on which would be good candidates to seek out and try? I've read the Dodge has a high instep (and I know a place near me that still has some in stock in my size); not sure about the other PMTS-recommended race boots, which I understand are currently the Dodge, Salomon, Nordica, Head, and Dalbello:

h.harb wrote:Lange is on the bottom of my list, before them is Salomon, Nordica, Head, and Delbello. [Sun Mar 02, 2014]
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Re: New Boots

Postby gaku » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:39 am

theorist wrote:
gaku wrote:Hm, in that case I'm left with these options:

http://www.racecenter.no/products/nordi ... wc-130-edt (93 mm)

http://www.racecenter.no/products/rossignol-hero-wc-za (92 mm)

FYI, the Rossi race boots are all Langes with Rossi graphics. [Rossi owns Lange.]

Rossignol Ski Boots 2014

For ski industry insiders, it’s always been interesting to observe how Rossignol differentiates their boot line from that of sister company Lange. In some epochs, their shells, liners and buckles have been very different; at other points in time, their top race models were virtual clones.

In recent seasons, Rossi has seen Lange profit handsomely by making a softer “130” flex boot with a slightly raised instep. Now Rossi has a couple of dandy new 130’s that aim to excel on more than just hard snow. Both the Experience SI 130 and the Alltrack Pro 130 borrow some of their essential components from the Lange parts department, yet fit and perform in ways subtly different from their Italian relatives
.
The above quote from realskiers. Are you sure the differences mentioned here don't relate to the racing boots (different liner for instance)?
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