ISS Magnum vs. Speed

[VicP]

Considering some newer skis - always have been biased towards slalom cuts and do like bumps - and am looking at the Head i.Supershapes.

Harald did not seem too crazy about them (in a post on Fri Oct 18, 2013),

Actually the iSupershape is an up-tuned race ski, less of a de-tuned version, for a few reasons. It has more side cut at the tail, a wider tail than a slalom ski. The KERS system also stiffens it up considerably. That's why some don't like it in the bumps. It's not my first choice in bumps, but it's not horrible. We ski it in the bumps very well. If you release your legs with hip and torso CA, the tail of the iSS has almost no hooking up effect. If you rotate through with hip torso or shoulder, at the release, the iSS will hang on and hang you up.. Just some technical descriptions on why some people like some skis over others. Jackson just about says this in his piece, "the ski won't make you a better skier," unless you are in charge of how each ski improves with the right movements.

but now carries the ISS Speed in his shop as a replacement for the ISS/SS. Is the newer ISS Speed different and now the preferred ISS? It seems that the ISS Magnum has a deeper side-cut and would be quicker turning and edge-to-edge.

Any thoughts on this or a comparison between the Magnum and Speed? I currently have the Dynastar Omecarve (which I like very much), have not skied for 2 years and am looking at getting back and possibly a new ski purchase.

- Thanks

[Max_501]

Harald did not seem too crazy about them (in a post on Fri Oct 18, 2013),

Actually HH really likes the Supershape and, like many of us, was disappointed when Head decided to discontinue it.

Any thoughts on this or a comparison between the Magnum and Speed? I currently have the Dynastar Omecarve (which I like very much), have not skied for 2 years and am looking at getting back and possibly a new ski purchase

Which Omecarve are you currently using?

[VicP]

Actually HH really likes the Supershape and, like many of us, was disappointed when Head decided to discontinue it.

I might be mistaken, but I thought that HH was talking about the iSS (not the original SS) in the above quote.

Which Omecarve are you currently using?

The Dynastar Omecarve 09 in 165 cm. I am 6'3" and 185-190 lbs and find these skis responsive and fairly forgiving. They are excellent for slow speed carving demonstrations/practice but respond to more aggressive skiing. I also have a bunch of other skis, including Atomic Beta Race Carves 9.12 (160 cm) and 9.16 (180 cm), Dynastar Intuitiv 74 (175 cm), and a Volant Machete Soul (180 cm). The Omecarve is the most pleasing and go-to ski of the whole bunch and I am looking to replace it with something similar once it wears out. As I get older, I am becoming more turn rather than speed happy.

Also read some good things about the Volkl Racetiger SL - supposed to be also very good at slow speeds, the Elan Amphibio SL(X)s, and the Head Rebels i.SL. It seems that the Head TT80/800s would have been good candidates (narrow waists) but those are no longer made and the current trend of rec skis is toward wider waists (80mm +). I guess the only thing to do is to ski and demo a lot while asking questions on forums like this.

- Thanks

[Max_501]

I might be mistaken, but I thought that HH was talking about the iSS (not the original SS) in the above quote.

Doesn't matter if its the original or the later model with KERS. HH liked them both.

[VicP]

I might be mistaken, but I thought that HH was talking about the iSS (not the original SS) in the above quote.

Doesn't matter if its the original or the later model with KERS. HH liked them both.

That's all good and well, but as I asked in my original post -

Could someone (who is familiar with both) compare the current iSS Speed and Magnum with regards to short turns, bumps, PMTS skill demos, etc. According to published specs, the Speed is narrower underfoot while the Magnum, although a bit wider, has a deeper side-cut and shorter turn radius.

For what it's worth, Realskiers.com (Hogan/Keelty) just named the i.Supershape Speed "the bump ski of the year."

- Thanks

[Max_501]

Comparing a 13M 72mm waist to a 14M 66mm waist. The 13M is slightly tighter but gives up some quickness getting to the new edge. There is something about the Magnum that didn't feel right to me. Haven't been able to put my finger on it. Maybe a bit too stiff in the wrong places. The Speed is a great ski but it needs proper movements to sing.

[Mac]

Max, I had the same feeling the first time I got on board the new Magnum. My first thought was that they were kinda stiff. Maybe not a ski that I would want to ski on all day. My buddy, who was with me that day at Stratton, and also demoed a pair, had the same impression. Me, 6', 210 lbs, and I was on the 177. My friend, 5' 10" 190, and a veteran camper, was on the 170. We ventured onto a bump run that if I had known what we were getting into, we probably would have opted out. Typical early season steep unfriendly eastern ugly manmade snow and ice bumps. I was surprised that the Magnum actually handled them as well as it did. Not great, but not horrible. My friend was not as impressed. By noontime, he was done with them, and went back to get his red SS's. I ended up skiing the Magnum for the rest of the day. It kind of grew on me after a while. But it did have a hunger for speed, wanted to accelerate from turn to turn if you didn't stay on top of them. Could find yourself going way too fast if you let them run. Maybe a symptom of being "too stiff in the wrong places."

[Hobbit]

Since the original question was regarding i.SS replacement, I don't understand why not to consider non-FIS Rebels i.Sl as a closest thing to KERS i.SS.
I am not even sure which one is better -- i.SS or i.SL . I have original Supershapes and Rebels i.SL and I do think Rebels are much better (at least in 160 size which I ski). I think HH skis Rebels i.SL nowadays as well

[VicP]

Since the original question was regarding i.SS replacement, I don't understand why not to consider non-FIS Rebels i.Sl as a closest thing to KERS i.SS.
I am not even sure which one is better -- i.SS or i.SL . I have original Supershapes and Rebels i.SL and I do think Rebels are much better (at least in 160 size which I ski). I think HH skis Rebels i.SL nowadays as well

I guess that was my follow-up question (thanks Hobbit) - how does the i.SL (not RD/FIS) compare for good performance (quickness, rebound, edge-hold, etc.), some versatility, and the ability to ski precise PMTS skills at slow speeds? Realskiers rates them as such.

Also, does anyone have experience or knowledge to compare the Volkl Racetiger SL Speedwall UVO (also rated by Realskiers for ease and performance) and the Elan Ampibio SL(X)s - or anything similar, to the models mentioned above?

Doesn't have to be a specific make (Head i.e.) - there are other very capable ski manufacturers out there. Looking for feedback/suggestions for quick, short turning, performance skis that are also manageable at slow speeds and versatile enough to be used outside a race course (softer snow) - not asking for too much, eh? There have been numerous examples (original SS, TT80/800, Dynastar Omecarve, others) but the ski industry keeps changing models, it seems, more in response to marketing than technical refinement.

- Thanks

[Max_501]

With regards to using review sites for ski suggestions...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4519

[VicP]

With regards to using review sites for ski suggestions...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4519

Thanks, I am aware of that and have read that and other posts. That is why I am asking for personal feedback from people that have used the skis or ski-types in question (race/frontside). HH did mention ( I think) that the "frontside" suggestions were valid - maybe he has changed his mind.

An update from HH of "Best Peformance Skis 2011/2012 by Harald Harb" would be great (for 2014/2015), unless the online shop page on HHS is it - except it is not as detailed.

In any case, looking for personal feedback to mix in with everything else - I don't necessarily take any single opinion/review as absolute.

Sidebar:
BTW, I know that any discussion of ski teaching methods other than PMTS is not tolerated on the PMTS forum - which is OK by me. I am a PMTS adherent and believe that it embodies truly expert skiing skills. Many thanks to Harald & Co. for codifying it for wide dissemination through publications, videos, camps, etc.. I know it has changed my approach to skiing after it was somewhat screwed up by PSIA training and certification. Counter (acting and balancing) was something that I used when I originally started skiing many years ago. Wide-stance and square-to-the-ski PSIA methods simply degraded my skills, so PMTS was like coming home and a breath of fresh air.

But - is it also taboo to discuss equipment that is not promoted/sold by HHS? I seem to notice a reticence on this forum to do so - maybe I am mistaken. Availability, location, pricing, personal preference, etc., all dictate where, how, and what we purchase. Hopefully we can freely discuss equipment options as they pertain to PMTS.

- Thanks again

[Max_501]

But - is it also taboo to discuss equipment that is not promoted/sold by HHS? I seem to notice a reticence on this forum to do so - maybe I am mistaken. Availability, location, pricing, personal preference, etc., all dictate where, how, and what we purchase. Hopefully we can freely discuss equipment options as they pertain to PMTS.

No, but discussion of equipment that doesn't support PMTS development has been an issue in the past. Generally we don't care what the reviews sites say because we don't know how the reviewers ski.

For carving skis most of the PMTS experts are on Head with some Elan and Fischer thrown into the mix. I own skis from all three brands. My current hard snow carver is the Elan SLX (jbotti has a pair too). I'll probably add an i.Speed to the stable when the Elan's wear out.

Here's what Diana had to say about the Speed:

Skiers from low intermediate up to very advanced are enjoying the iSS Speed. It's very docile, easy to tip, yet has a lot of performance in it for the better skier.

[VicP]

No, but discussion of equipment that doesn't support PMTS development has been an issue in the past. Generally we don't care what the reviews sites say because we don't know how the reviewers ski.

Agreed/agreed.

For carving skis most of the PMTS experts are on Head with some Elan and Fischer thrown into the mix. I own skis from all three brands. My current hard snow carver is the Elan SLX (jbotti has a pair too). I'll probably add an i.Speed to the stable when the Elan's wear out.

Care to share/compare impressions and specs on the Elan SLX and Fischer models (?) with the above skis?

- Thanks

[Max_501]

Care to share/compare impressions and specs on the Elan SLX and Fischer models (?) with the above skis?

The SLX is a great ski in the hands of a skier with strong PMTS fundamentals. The Fishers I have are RD so those don't apply. I haven't been on the RC4 SC models in a while so can't help there.

[CO_Steve]

I also have a pair of SLXs and agree with Max's assessment. After Geoffda talked me out of my stash of Supershapes I mostly ski the Stockli Laser SL (non-FIS). Responds well to PMTS.