Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delta?

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Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delta?

Postby theorist » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:07 pm

Does anyone have personal experience with gas-pedaling ski boots? For those not familiar with the term, gas-pedaling involves putting a spacer under the toe, and then shaving an equal thickness of material off the top of the toe lug to maintain DIN toe height. It's done as an alternative to putting lifters under binding toe pieces.

My specific question is whether gas-pedaling the boot toe by, say, 3 mm is indistinguishable from reducing binding delta by that same amount. In principle, it should be, but I want to make sure that's the case in practice before I do it, since it's essentially irreversible.

I'm considering it because I've found I typically need to reduce binding delta by an amount >= 3 mm. This way when I demo skis, I'll either be at my proper delta, or close. And it also means I'll be able to achieve balance on one-piece system bindings (such as the Head PRD12), whose deltas can't be readily adjusted.
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Re: Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delt

Postby JMD » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:49 am

Yes adding a Gas Peddle to the toe of your boots will work the same as adding a lift under the toe piece of the binding. I'm the opposite and have had my boots modified by Chris at HHs shop to add a 3mm heel lift under the boots. Most Head/Tyrolia bindings have a 5.5mm to 7mm heel lift built in. Several other brands of bindings are closer to flat (Atomic has only a 2mm lift). In addition to my boot lifts, I also needed to add a 4mm heel lift under the Atomic Bindings to maintain the same delta between all of my skis(average of 6mm). Try and remember this when Demoing different skis with different bindings.
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Re: Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delt

Postby theorist » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:15 am

Thanks JMD! Yeah, I'm aware the Atomics are ~2 mm. In fact, I used to ski Atomics, and liked that about them. Likewise, I've read the Nordica FA84 uses a Vist system binding that has 0 mm delta. However:

1) I've found these flatter bindings are in the minority, so gas-pedaling should maximize the number of skis I'm balanced on (or close to it) out-of-the-box.

2) Lately I've moved away from Atomics and towards Heads, i.e., away from skis with flatter system bindings, and towards those with more ramped system bindings (though I am curious about the Atomic SL skis, which I've not had a chance to try...).
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Re: Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delt

Postby Max_501 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:29 am

Have you had your lateral alignment done yet?
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Re: Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delt

Postby theorist » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:12 pm

Max_501 wrote:Have you had your lateral alignment done yet?

Had my current set-up (same boots/orthotics) checked a while ago with an on-snow evaluation, including video. Had it rechecked with a shop check last winter. Why -- do you see a potential problem in my avatar?
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Re: Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delt

Postby Max_501 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:16 pm

theorist wrote:Had my current set-up (same boots/orthotics) checked a while ago with an on-snow evaluation, including video. Had it rechecked with a shop check last winter. Why -- do you see a potential problem in my avatar?


Checked at HSS?
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Re: Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delt

Postby theorist » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:36 pm

Yes, a while ago; rechecked by Footloose at Mammoth last winter.
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Re: Is "gas-pedaling" functionally the same as changing delt

Postby theorist » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:12 am

I'll add HSS found no lateral adjustments were needed. That's not surprising, given the care that was put into selecting these boots. I'll share the story because everyone here has gone through the trials of bootfitting, typically several times, and thus may find this interesting:

I got them from my local shop, whose equipment manager is one of the most sophisticated bootfitters in the country. He arranged for me to try seven different brands of race boots, which is unusual -- most shops only have two to four. He had recently acquired a Tektronix pressure plate -- you stand on it while wearing both boots (with your orthotics), and it sends, to an attached computer, a false-color readout of the pressure distribution under the soles. On some boots we found the pressure was more to the outside, on others it was the opposite. On one model it was to the outside on one, and to the inside on the other. But with one boot, the Rossi Course KX, the lateral pressure distribution was uniform across both soles. This indicated that the geometry of these boot was a perfect match for my own geometry, and that no canting or cuff adjustments would be needed.

However, the Course KX they happened to have in my size was a women's boot, so the fit wasn't quite right. Not a problem, since the men's boot had the same geometry. But when he went to order it, even though this was November, Rossi was out of stock in my size. Fortunately, he had connections to Rossi's race dept., and managed to get a race stock version of the same boot. We checked it, and it gave the same pressure readout as the stock women's boot.

Having to get the race stock boot was fortuitous -- not only was it higher-performing than the stock boot, it was also more comfortable because it had a much better liner -- the thin flow race liner fit so well that I didn't need to get foam liners (which I'd had on previous boots). This ended up being not only the highest-performing boot I ever owned, but also the only comfortable one! And, correspondingly, it was the only warm ski boot I've ever owned, because it allowed unimpeded circulation. The shell fits so well that I don't buckle either of the two buckles over the foot. The only liner modification I needed was to add a Conformable foam tongue (the foam tongue took up some space in the upper cuff; plus, because it's much stiffer than the stock tongue, you don't feel a pressure point on your shin at the boot top). Now these liners are finally breaking down, so it's probably time for either new liners or new boots -- something I'm not looking forward to (finding comfortable race boots is always a challenge for me, because of my high instep).

The one limitation of this shop is that it's in the middle of a city, so they can't do on-snow evaluations (that's why they've adopted such a sophisticated approach, to do as well as they can without this option). I personally felt an on-snow eval would be a valuable final check, and I'd heard of HSS's reputation, which is why I had them take a look to confirm.
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