Head skies factory default side edge angle

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Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby Bingster » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:13 pm

I always think my TT80 side edge angle is 88 degrees.
But recently, one of my friends showed me this article, which shows head ski factory defaults are (1,1).
http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/view/31/41/

So I have been using a wrong angle when sharpening my TT80 all these time?
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby HighAngles » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:23 pm

There is no wrong angle. Edge bevels are purely a personal choice; they are not an element of the design of the ski. Most PMTS followers go with a 3* side bevel and a 1* or less base bevel. Lots of info is available on the subject of edge bevels.
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby Bingster » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:42 pm

But in order to use a side edge angle other than the factory default, I need to cut some material off from the ski boards, right? And I think my simple hand tool won't be able to do that.

So if the Head factory default is (1,1), I think that I was never effectively sharpened my TT80 all these time.
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby geoffda » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:21 pm

Bingster wrote:But in order to use a side edge angle other than the factory default, I need to cut some material off from the ski boards, right? And I think my simple hand tool won't be able to do that.

So if the Head factory default is (1,1), I think that I was never effectively sharpened my TT80 all these time.


Regardless of whether you change the bevels, at some point you will file the edge down enough so that your tool will come in contact with the sidewall. You can usually tell when that is occurring because you will start seeing sidewall material on the file or the diamond stone. Additionally, you will find that your edges aren't actually getting sharper. The solution is to buy a tool called a sidewall cutter that will remove enough sidewall to allow your tuning tools to engage. Here's an example of an inexpensive one from Swix that works just fine: http://www.swixshop.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... ll-cutters. With new skis, I also like to first file the side edges to 5 degrees with a panzer file (which clears away some sidewall) and then set the bevels back to 3 degrees. Doing this avoids the need to trim the sidewalls for a good long while.

A good way to tell with certainty if your filing is actually working is to take a sharpie and color your side edges. If your tool is actually engaging, it will take the sharpie off. Also, keep in mind that hitting rocks produces enough energy to case-harden your edges. Once edges have been case-hardened, a file will skip over those spots (which will also dull the file). The only way to remove case-hardening is to use a diamond stone prior to filing. If your edges aren't getting sharp, this could be another reason why.
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby Max_501 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:12 pm

Max_501 wrote:I don't touch my base edge unless I'm repairing a ding from a rock. On your tool the 88 will give you a 2 degree side edge bevel. I prefer a 3 degree on the TT80 but 2 degree should work unless the conditions are icy.

http://vimeo.com/28438622

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo5OiqMkU78

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNzve8w2S0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxOTdT55HNY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F0ZDkxALLg
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby Bingster » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:23 pm

Thanks for all these information. I have another question. If I want to change the side edge from 1 to 3, do I need to use any special edge sharpen tools other than side wall cutter? Right now, I only have a travel size hand tool for edge sharpening.
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby geoffda » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:44 pm

To change (or reset) bevels you would want a file. Ideally, you would want to start with something coarse and then move to progressively finer files. You can certainly start with something fine, but it will require more work and more wear and tear on the file. I generally start with a panzer file, then go mill-bastard, second-cut, and smooth file. I use the second cut and smooth files for maintenance.

Trying to set your bevels with a travel-size hand-tool might be a bit much. As a start, I'd recommend purchasing a second cut file. It will require a bit of extra work to actually set bevels, but it will get the job done and it is a good file for maintenance.

Here is really what you need for basic tuning:

1. File guide (2 or 3 degree depending on preference)
2. Spring clamp
3. Second cut file
4. sidewall cutter
5. 600 grit diamond stone
6. ceramic stone (diamond stones soften the edge, so you use ceramics to harden them back up)
7. Rubber bands to clamp your ski brakes
8. Steel Scraper
9. P-Tex candles
10. Waxing iron
11. Plastic scraper
12. Hard nylon brush (rectangular is fine, but oval is nicer)
13. All temperature hydrocarbon wax
14. Vise
15. Base Beast (1 degree or .5 degree depending on preference) -- kind of optional since you shouldn't touch your base edges for the most part, but it is helpful for fixing rock damage.

The above represents a pretty solid tuning kit that will allow you to keep your skis well maintained. Many of us have more extensive kits, but that would be a very good start. It is a bit of an investment, but when you consider that shop tunes will usually cost $40-$60 and beyond, it will pay for itself in a hurry. If you are serious about your skiing, well tuned skis are a must and tuning them yourself is the only economical option.

Lots of good places to order from, here are a couple of shops I frequent.
http://www.artechski.com/#gsc.tab=0
http://www.slidewright.com/
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby Max_501 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:22 pm

Here's another guide that appears to have been created for racers:

SKI TUNING AND WAXING

I buy most of my tuning stuff from Tognar

Choosing a Bevel Tool

Tuning with Willi Wiltz

Edge bevel tips
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby Bingster » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:02 pm

Thanks for all these information. One more question, with these tools, roughly how long will it take for a beginner to change bevels from 1 to 2 degrees?
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Re: Head skies factory default side edge angle

Postby Max_501 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:25 am

I would guess close to 60 minutes. I started by practicing on an old pair of skis.
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