Carvers for Bumps?

[Skiasaurus Rex]

I do have a question for the upper level PMTS skiers: Do you like/ prefer carving skis in bumps? And by carving I mean stiffer than average skis with 12m or less turning radii. I guess the correct term is-slalom or slalom style skis. Do you prefer/like/recommend slalom carvers for bump skiing and learning to ski bumps? What is the ideal length, turn radius, style of ski for bringing and using PMTS techniques into moguls? Are Slalom or general public slalom carvers a detriment in moguls?

The Powder ski thread has me thinking a lot about a serious upgrade and change to my equipment. I'd like to unload most of my skis and narrow it down, literally, to 1 good pair of slalom carvers, or some competent short turn radius 160-170cm ski and one PMTS worthy wider ski. I see that the Rev 105 is well regarded, in almost all circles in fact. But, I had some thoughts about bumps and slalom carvers-so I just thought I would tap the trees of PMTS knowledge and experience.

FWIW-I have been using a longer Hart Phoenix for two seasons now, but I would like to go shorter and 'turner' this season. I relied on what I've seen harald refer to as 'Late Hit Edge Set Skiing' in moguls with this ski, and I hope to change that. Actually, I rarely took this in the moguls usually preferring wider skis.

[HighAngles]

My quiver has become much narrower over the past few seasons - so I feel your "pain".

Pardon my slight thread drift for a moment (I promise I'll get back to the mogul ski question ).

In my view (a PMTS perspective), the quiver exists for different reasons depending on whether you're PMTS or TTS:

TTS - You need big fat rockered skis in your quiver to keep your skis floating high in deep snow so that your pivoting/twisting movements will still work. The higher float also provides more of a platform for your push-off move that you use to get into the new turn.

PMTS - Skis with higher width are tools to keep us above the "crap" that lurks below the snow when the coverage isn't yet completely sufficient. The added float can make a 6" day over questionable coverage feel like a legit powder day. PMTS skiers don't need to be "out" of the snow in order to make a turn! If there's sufficient coverage (snow depth) then I will more likely gravitate to a longer ski, but not necessarily fatter on a powder day. The other reason that the added float is of value is when you're skiing deep snow on low angle slopes. The float can help you plane up more quickly and allow you to ski faster. And longer skis will help smooth out the choppy left-overs.

So back to moguls... I'm firmly in the camp that believes that it's more about the indian than the arrow. You can't buy a ski that's suddenly going to give you mogul skiing skills. However, there are skis that are more forgiving. I believe that the recommended skis for PMTS skiers are going to work for you just as well in moguls as the groomers (and everywhere else). That's the beauty of gaining PMTS skills - those skills can be used everywhere and you don't have to change skis either.

[Max_501]

A 170cm detuned SL ski is perfect for PMTS style bump skiing. The TT80 is the best example I can think of. The standard SS isn't quite as good for very fast turns because the tail is wide which causes a slugglish release. A problem when skiing steeper bumps and SL gates.

HH likes the new SS iSpeed for bumps. I haven't tried it yet.

[HighAngles]

Ahh, good point Max. Yes, squared off tails with deeper sidecuts can make releasing in the moguls more of a challenge.

[Skiasaurus Rex]

That was my worry as well about the square, grippier tails and moguls.

Those Icon TT's are a bit of a rare bird, the SS ispeed is an impressive looking set of sticks, hmmmm...

[Max_501]

Focus on the sidecut and size of the tail. The SS tail isn't more squared off than the TT80 or the iSL but it is wider.

[dan.boisvert]

If you want to demo a bunch of PMTS-friendly skis to help figure stuff out, there will be a pile of them at the Northeast Meetup again this year. Most of the folks who show up have quivers, and we pass them around pretty freely. This year's event will be in Maine, and I'm probably bringing at least 3 pairs, so I'll have fresh edges and wax every day. I don't think I'll be the only one doing that.

[Skizoo]

The best 2 'non bump' - bump skis I've skied in the past 10 years were the Fischer RX8 (165) and the Rossi Bandit B1 (170), I have the TT800's but don't ski bumps anywhere near as much as I used to so not a lot of feedback on the TT's. These skis can still be found dirt cheap and they respond to PMTS technique.

RX8 - 116/65/98


Bandit B1 - 109/70/99

[Max_501]

Bandit B1 - 109/70/99

Not a great ski for PMTS style bumps or really any PMTS style skiing.

[Icanski]

HI guys,
This might be a good time to ask: what makes a good bump ski, and PMTS ski in general? I know that we like a narrow waist for quick edge changes, but how does shape affect pmts style?
What about rockers...they are the new thing, what do I tell clients who ask about this?
I know the general points about SL, GS, and such, but what in these areas are PMTS skiers looking for?
It's one thing to know that Head, or other companies make a ski that's great for PMTS, but what are the effects of different processes on performance: cap skis, softer flex, cut and such. Might be a separate thread, but I'd like to learn more about what it is about the making of the skis recommended for PMTS that makes them fit our profile, so I can say to a client: this is what you're looking for for pmts, whatever brand of ski they like or want.

[Max_501]

...so I can say to a client: this is what you're looking for for pmts, whatever brand of ski they like or want.

Unfortunately that won't work. Many brands do not make a good PMTS ski because they are too stiff, too soft, or the flex pattern sucks.

[HighAngles]

I just got back from 2 ski shops and spent some time perusing the skis. It's just crazy how stiff most of top line ski models are.

[Max_501]

It's just crazy how stiff most of top line ski models are.

I can't count the number of times I got on a ski that should have been great only to find it was too fffing stiff.

[jbotti]

There is stiff and there is crazy stiff. I skied the Blizzard magnum 8.1 (I may have the name wrong) and I could not bend that ski at all but I could maintain steady pressure at the tip. Some Volkl's I have skied every time I pressured the tip it was so stiff it would snap me back off the tip. Not sure how anyone can ski a ski like this unless they never pressure the tips or unless they weigh 250+ and have amazing race carving skills.

And this is the big issues with listening to peoples reviews on place like Epic or god forbid TGR. Sierra Jim seems like a great guy but he posted a video of him skiing the Head SS Rally, attempting to edge lock carve. One thing is for sure, he is doing things differently with skis than anyone using PMTS is attempting, so none of us can listen to anything he says about skis (although for others that ski with similar technique as him the reviews may be relevant). That's why I listen to Harald, Jay, Max, Diana and not really anyone else.

[milesb]

The head xshape stx is great for bumps. Even though the tail is quite wide, I don't have any issues with it getting "stuck" in a turn. BTW, they are not made anymore. There is not much of a market for them, I'm surprised that Head made them.