Carvers MA

Carvers MA

Postby RyanAllen » Sun May 03, 2020 3:29 pm

Hi Everybody!

This might be a quiet time of the year for the forum, but I just built my Harb Carvers and can't get enough of them. Not building them last year was a big mistake. If you're thinking about building carvers, do it! They' may be the only thing that has threatened my cycling addiction in a long time. I've been on them for a week as of today and here's my first movement analysis submission for anyone to share feedback.





There's a lot to work on (plenty of time, too) but I'm actually not unhappy with this. Here's my own to-do list:

1) Eliminate "scissoring" or pushing the carvers. I think I need to be patient and let the stance carver finish the turn, while trying harder to pull back the free carver. I may also need a bit more canting under my right foot BTE.
2) Tip my left free foot harder - seems like I'm a little less aggressive turning left.
3) Aim my pole touch further back. Especially left arm? I'm not swinging them like PSIA Ryan, but I think I can shorten the travel more.

This was nice asphalt and I liked the grade but I needed a little more speed to avoid stall speed. I'm thinking of a steeper venue when the skill and confidence is there. I've got plenty of time and enthusiasm to make progress though, and would really appreciate feedback especially from the ace Harb Carvers on the forum.

Thanks,
Ry
Last edited by RyanAllen on Wed May 27, 2020 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby noobSkier » Tue May 05, 2020 11:32 am

It's a good start, looks forced though. There is some juicing (pushing) to finish the turns. Basically there is not enough tipping for that radius so you are having to push for directional change. This also contributes to the scissoring. The temptation to push becomes greater as you lose speed so you will need to learn to choose a speed and radius thats appropriate for your current tipping ability. Keep it pure, tipping only is what we are going for. When you do self-MA look for smooth turns and transitions, if it looks jerky you are pushing.

Smooth as butter! :





ps. future MA posts belong in the MA section.
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby RyanAllen » Wed May 06, 2020 5:57 am

There is some juicing (pushing) to finish the turns. Basically there is not enough tipping for that radius so you are having to push for directional change.


Lightbulb! Thank you for this insight! Probably saved me from developing a really bad habit. I will try to isolate tipping and avoid the outer skate "push." Reminds me of advice from another PMTS skier about staying soft on your feet. I do think part of this is related to insufficient alignment. I went out yesterday for a practice sesh and noticed my knees still collapse to the inside while balancing on one foot.

I also experienced a mechanical issue when my hose clamp fell off after hitting a bump and I lost the skate. I crashed into a retaining wall - injuries seem minor to moderate at this point but I need a few days to heal. The hose clamp was the one on the parts list but I've been concerned that it wasn't tight enough. I tighten it as far as possible and the threads start to skip, so I will try and find something that has the ability to tighten to a shorter length. Painful lesson...

Also, thank you to the administrator for moving my post the correct section. Apologies for misplacing it!! :(
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby noobSkier » Wed May 06, 2020 11:12 am

Sorry to hear about your injury...get well soon. That hose clamp is definitely a hazard if its not on just right, I have lost the carver more than once. In the end I just put of bunch of screws into the toe lug to prevent the clamp from slipping off.
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby Robert0325 » Wed May 06, 2020 2:19 pm

Is there any reason why the design couldn't be adapted to use regular bindings? I'm planning to make my own and have a spare pair of bindings so thought I'd use those. I realize it will make the skates a bit longer fore and aft to accommodate but i don't really see that as a major issue, I'll still keep the wheels at the same pitches. This would at least prevent the binding coming off which you both seem to have had issues with?

Hope the injury heels quickly Ryan....
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby skijim13 » Thu May 07, 2020 3:33 am

Can you provide me with the part number for the wheels you got from the supplier listed on the parts list. I went on the website for the wheels and the number did not come up. Working on building two pairs this spring.
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby RyanAllen » Thu May 07, 2020 5:09 am

Robert0325 wrote:Is there any reason why the design couldn't be adapted to use regular bindings? I'm planning to make my own and have a spare pair of bindings so thought I'd use those. I realize it will make the skates a bit longer fore and aft to accommodate but i don't really see that as a major issue, I'll still keep the wheels at the same pitches. This would at least prevent the binding coming off which you both seem to have had issues with?

Hope the injury heels quickly Ryan....


Sorry, I'm a "noob" metalworker - not qualified to answer your question about using regular bindings. The binding design does indeed seem a bit problematic. I am planning on getting a shorter hose clamp for the front boot lug and running a second hose clamp over the top of my boots. I will try and post a picture. One thing I've learned from a lifetime on bikes, racing, and the occasional wipe-out is how to heal up! Feeling about 75% there as of this morning.

skijim13 wrote:Can you provide me with the part number for the wheels you got from the supplier listed on the parts list. I went on the website for the wheels and the number did not come up. Working on building two pairs this spring.


I had the same problem. The website seems to have moved towards supplying inline hockey equipment only. The wheels that Mr. Noob and I are using can be found on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HKPDT21/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As he mentioned in his own post about building carvers, be sure to get 8mm bearing spacers for the wheels. They are different than the typical bearing spacer used for inline skates. Here's an example of what you want: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XHX4K27/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B06XHX4K27&pd_rd_w=OoEmZ&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=mbhbW&pf_rd_r=CTJAC9B1JZH9NRPR07X4&pd_rd_r=319384a8-858e-422f-95df-d13c9ba70d99&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySzJESUtON0ZWNU9IJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjM3MDg0MUM1UkdLVDQyWVVHUSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTQ4NTYyMkdaQkJITUhXQVhVWiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Link to noobskier's post: http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5161&p=52187&hilit=non+ferrous#p52187

Thanks for replying and best wishes!!
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby RyanAllen » Sat May 09, 2020 5:28 am

I may have a pretty simple solution for securing my boots to the carvers. In addition to finding a shorter hose clamp band, I added a second hose clamp using the same 0.75" hole in the carver chassis and looped it over the toe of the boot, just below the first buckle. It seems quite secure to me. In fact, I think it's possible to overtighten the clamps.

Image
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby HeluvaSkier » Sat May 09, 2020 8:13 am

Do Ski Blade / Ski Board, non-releasable bindings not work for this application?
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby skijim13 » Tue May 19, 2020 8:46 am

Thanks for the information
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby ErikCO » Wed May 20, 2020 9:04 am

I would think that the hardest part of mounting either ski blade bindings (does anyone have a source for them as they sound like the best option) or regular bindings would be finding the right kind of hardware for the actual mounting. Obviously, the screws that are typically used for mounting to skis are not a good idea. And since it looks like the frame is made from aluminum, I would be hesitant to tap/thread the aluminum without someone with an engineering background running some calculations to make sure the metal would support the force. The solution I would lean toward would be nut/bolt/lock washer, but finding a bolt that both fits down in binding holes and can be easily tightened (a lot of bolts of that size have hex heads that would be hard to hold still while tightening) could take a bit of work.
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby RyanAllen » Wed May 20, 2020 12:57 pm

ErikCO wrote:And since it looks like the frame is made from aluminum


The chassis material is 6061 aluminum tubing - not that I understand what that means, except to say that it was fairly soft when I cut it. I have been out several times on these using the second hose clamp band as pictured and feel that they are quite secure. I would have posted more video for MA sooner but I am ironing out some alignment modifications. Heading up to Leelanau Co. this weekend and should be able to find some choice hills and willing camera operators.

I will say that my carver hill preferences are quite narrow. Anything less than about a 2% grade is boring, anything more than about 3-4% and things happen too quickly and self preservation > good technique! I would love to know what hill grade HSS used to prefer for their summer carver camps.
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby Marc » Wed May 20, 2020 1:26 pm

ErikCO wrote:ski blade bindings (does anyone have a source for them as they sound like the best option)


I bought a pair from https://www.grasski.net/en/store/spare-parts/binding but I live in EU...

Any ideas how to mount them?

Edit: maybe split this thread into a MA and a Gear thread?!
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby Robert0325 » Wed May 20, 2020 2:13 pm

The main problem of fitting a ski binding I've realised is not the method of fixing but that that you end up with a much higher mounting position. Even with with a none system binding you end up being at least another 10mm off the ground and you are already very much higher off the ground than with normal skis of course. Add to that the mounting holes on ski bindings straddle the square tube and the bolts come down over the wheels so you have to add a bit of height for clearing the screws. probably a 5mm thick plate with tapped holes will be needed to fix onto the square tube first to then tap holes for screws to secure the bindings. So I think I worked out with the Marker Squire bindings that I was thinking of using I would be about 12mm (1/2") higher off the ground than with the Harb design.
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Re: Carvers MA

Postby noobSkier » Wed May 20, 2020 3:20 pm

If anyone is interested, I am designing a set of fully 3-d printable cavers based on the comp model with an integrated binding solution. Unfortunately this would be limited to rigs capable of printing high temperature engineering grade materials so not super accessible. I am still waiting for my plastic to come in, but I have ran the model through some stress simulations and it holds up very well. I'll post the finished product when I'm done.
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