T's PMTS Journey

Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby tangem1 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:34 pm

I am fairly new to PMTS, less than 2 years but I have been working through each of the books and videos with my daughter so I will share the few things I see. I think the main reason your are getting comments to start over with the first book is because in your video's the basic lightening of the inside foot and tipping (phantom move) doesn't appear to be present. Working through the tipping exercises and posting a movement analysis request of you doing those drills would probably be the best next step in my opinion. A couple of other obvious things I noticed is your hands dropping to your hips and not out at the home base position. Your pole plants are swinging forward toward the tips of your skis. You also appear to be leaning in during the turns and not counteracting and counter balancing. (See the angry mother video series to help with the pole swing and counteracting after getting the phantom move in place.) Anyone else please feel free to correct anything I have pointed out but in my limited experience those are some of the very big items I see missing, which again is why I think the majority of the feedback is to go back to the first book and work through the drills presented there.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby tea » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:55 pm

tangem1 wrote:... in your video's the basic lightening of the inside foot and tipping (phantom move) doesn't appear to be present. A couple of other obvious things I noticed is your hands dropping to your hips and not out at the home base position. Your pole plants are swinging forward toward the tips of your skis. You also appear to be leaning in during the turns and not counteracting and counter balancing. (See the angry mother video series to help with the pole swing and counteracting after getting the phantom move in place.)


That is interesting, thank you. I definitely am lightening the inside foot, and I definitely feel that I am counteracting and counterbalancing, so I will try to get another video on a slower, gentler slope the next time I am able to ski with someone, and look at those things. I will pay more attention to the pole plants as well as I do the exercises again.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby ErikCO » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:56 pm

Echoing what tangem said, part of the reason you are not getting much concrete is because there are, unfortunately, so many things wrong that it is hard to know where to start. If you have spent a lot of time on the exercises in Expert Skier 1 and this is the result, your best bet to avoid a lot of frustration is getting to a green PMTS camp. If that is completely out of the question, your next step is to make certain that you are able to perform traverses across the slope on both the little toe edge and big toe edges of both skis, with one foot held at least 6 inches above the snow. If you are not able to do that, leaving a relatively clean groove in the snow then you have a significant alignment problem.

Next, get video of yourself doing a shallow traverse with a free foot phantom move, with the free foot held at least 6 inches above the snow. Post that so you can get feedback on a much more limited set of movements.

A couple of other notes. Get rid of your pole plant entirely. Hold your arms wide and just drag poles. You are a long way from being ready to use them and your current plant is completely counterproductive. Also, if you are serious about improvement, put getting to a PMTS camp either with Harald or at Welch high on your priority list in the next 1-2 years. You will progress at least 10x faster than on your own.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby RRT » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:49 pm

I thought Movement Analysis forum exists exactly for this kind of feedback when learning by oneself?


Tea,

Understand the difference between the BIG and small picture. Consider there exist the major essentials of Tipping, Flexing, Couter Balance, Counter Acting and Fore/Aft Balance. Understand there exist a number of sub-categories of movememt/drills related to and designed to assist with the development of each essential. Begin with the Tipping category and the drills related to it. Add in lots and lots of practice using the drills for Tipping, some of which begin with just standing in one spot and working the feet. Make use of only green slopes at slow speeds. Do not go by "feelings." Use video to first compare it to the books and accompanying DVDs. When you think you are ready to submit video of a specific drill for proper movement analysis, do so. Then, you will get feedback of the detail you are requesting for that specific drill.

Kudos to those attempting to provide you with detail feedback but be aware that multiple well intentioned feedback at this point may only serve to confuse and/or go beyond your particular level of development. Trying to work on more than one skill at a time may only serve to slow your progress. Working on one specific drill will help forum members focus on the necessary movement necessary for successful completion that specific drill and/or what to do next. Those with a trained eye will be able to talk to you more about any alignment and balance issues you may or may not have at that point.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby noobSkier » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:28 pm

Since we haven't heard anything definitive from Max_501, I'll share what I see and maybe he can agree or disagree at a later time. In the nicest way possible I want to point out that there is zero tipping in your skiing. I can see that you are trying to lift the inside ski, but no foot tipping has actually occurred. I can't tell if that's alignment or technique related but most likely it's both. Foot tipping starts with a strong inversion of the ankle...more than you would think. Even the correct movement can be entirely negated by poor alignment, hence the emphasis on alignment in previous posts. Unfortunately alignment is a savage beast and you stand virtually zero chance of solving it on your own :( If you need any proof take a look at my MA thread...18 pages later I'm attending my first camp in March.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby ToddW » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:27 pm

Here’s a quote from a 2016 post. HH identifies two things that will immediately improve your skiing ... even without real PMTS movements happening. Alignment can make these more challenging to achieve, but I bet you can get a lot closer to both of them. And if you do, then it will make picking up full fledged PMTS easier.

will,


Here's a precursor to tipping that will make your tipping efforts more successful. Early in Expert Skier, Harald points out two things that will immediately improve your skiing.

1) narrow your stance. Bring your feet close together. That means a few finger widths of air gap between the boots or less. Think pull your feet together ... not your knees because that thought will likely activate different muscles.

2) balance on one ski. Lift the inside ski to prove that your weight and balance are on the outside ski. Keep the inside ski lifted for the whole turn. Do this for the next several months ("lifting is for learning, lightening is for expert skiers") It's difficult to tip a weighted ski; whereas it's "easy" to tip an unweighted inside ski. Lifting means a centimeter or a few cm off the snow, just enough to be off the snow. Lifting higher than that is not productive....
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby tea » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:46 pm

I'm confused by a few of the posts, like tipping for instance. I can see the tipping myself when I look down. I wonder if the movements would be clearer on a gentler slope at slower speeds. I will get someone to video me on a gentle green the next time I am able to ski, and also get videos of some drills and traverses.

Speaking of traverses, I am definitely able to balance on all four edges across the slope. Getting on right little toe edge was harder than getting on left little toe edge, but I don't think that's an alignment issue.

I also had the alignment tested using the pressure pad at the bootfitter who made me custom insoles, and the computerized heat map showed very symmetrical pressures across the board. Even the bootfitter said that out of the thousands he had checked over the years, only a handful has needed no alignment changes, and I am one of them. So I'm pretty sure everything that I'm doing wrong is down to just faulty technique.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby noobSkier » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:46 pm

You are clearly pushing on the stance ski to start every single turn; in other words: no tipping. It's unlikely that you would do something different on a green slope, but that would be a better place to start (and learn). I would advise against giving your boot fitter that much credit, but its definitely possible that you are one of the lucky few who don't need alignment work.

Have a look at these images of two different skiers showing strong tipping:

Image
Image

This one is me...not as strong, but you can see the similarity

Image

Compare to a still from your video:

Image

I hope that helps! There are people here who will help you if you are ready to be helped! Keep it up!
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby ToddW » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:08 pm

Do you know what tipping looks like? If the skis tilt on edge because the body moves inside, that’s not what we refer to as tipping. Tipping is a specific muscular action which tilts the skis more on edge than simple geometry would due to the body moves inside. There are many posts on this forum saying things like edges are born beneath the body — that the skis are tipped onto edge at transition when the skis are still beneath the body before it has moved inside.

To experience tipping, stand with your skis pointed across the fall line. Lighten and tilt your uphill ski while staying in the same spot. Do so with the metal edge of the lifted ski pressing into the downhill boot — feet as close as possible to amplify the effect of tipping. Does the downhill ski tilt on edge and track the amount of tipping of the free ski? You may be tipping, but you may also be pushing yourself onto edges. Place your ski poles across the top of your knees before trying to tip. On a gentle slope!! since you won’t have your poles to prevent a fall. As you tip, keep your knees below the pole; this will tend to inhibit push off. If this works, then try tipping the same way while pushing forward into a gentle traverse. Many people who can tip statically freeze up when they start moving. You should be able to tip (and untip) the skis a lot while traversing (tens of degrees is your goal). When you start turning strongly uphill, untip until you’re traversing again and repeat.

That resembles what you do in the bottom of a turn. Next practice tipping the downhill ski from a traverse, again with free ski metal edge touching the other boot. Once you start to turn downhill, untip to return to the traverse and repeat until the edge of the slope. This is called a garland and simulates the top of a turn. You can put your poles across your knees on this too to partially inhibit your body from cheating. Tip more and more than you ever thought you could. Some people feel their body is about to split in half when they first tip while keeping the feet together. Whatever your body feels when first tipping well, if will feel weird and wrong.

Once you try to take your tipping into turns, cycle through static tipping, garlands, and turns on each run. Static tipping reminds your body what it should do. Garlands let you carry that through into motion on skis without freezing up. The turns give you a chance to integrate this into your skiing before you again lose it. To regain it, restart the cycle. Over and over.

Harald has an essentials DVD devoted to tipping. Study it. Your jaw will drop when you see how much he can tip when he wants to. That should be your mental image of tipping.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby ErikCO » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:15 pm

Slower movement on a green would be good. As a point of reference, I am suggesting filming exercise 3-5 in Expert Skier 1. I am not sure that filming any of the exercises in Chapter 2 will be very helpful, though you are welcome to do so. Filming earlier exercises in Chapter 3 is fine as well. From a video/MA standpoint it would be important to actually lift the free foot off the snow as an easy cue that you have appropriately transferred balance.

As for your question on tipping, I don't have a computer with me this week (viewing on a phone) but from what I can see, the angles you get on your skis in the turn are mostly coming from other body movements, mostly nonPMTS movements. Get video of tipping exercises in Chapter 3 Book 1 then people, hopefully ones smarter/better at MA than I am, can comment on whether you actually are tipping. Tipping with full balance transfer to the outside/stance ski is the basis of all good skiing (pretty much a quote from one of Harald's YouTube videos) so you need to confirm that you are actually doing it before you do anything else.

As for alignment, without a personal endorsement from Harald or Diana, I would be hesitant to trust your local boot shop's alignment advise. Alignment at their shop in Dumont is a 1-2 hour process involving careful measurements of all the movements of your ankle, analysis of your foot/arch, and how your ankle and knee interact. It also includes careful analysis if ski boots cuff alignment and how your knee tracks in the ski boots with flexion and one footed balance. If you are able to do a traverse on all 4 edges with balance, that is a good sign, but it doesn't mean your alignment is where it should be. There are VERY few people in this country who actually understand alignment, as evidenced by the frequent alignment problems seen at all levels of skiing, including the World Cup level.

Edit: looks like a few folks smarter than I am posted while I was composing my post. Looks like they basically covered what I said, and more succinctly. Bottom line, film yourself doing chapter 3 book 1 exercises, post those for more helpful feedback.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby tea » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:15 pm

Thank you, all of that is very helpful!

I will try the poles on knees exercise, film exercise 3-5, and pay more attention to what my lower body is doing.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby noobSkier » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:30 pm

tea,

I just want to add that since you are still unable to enhance your tipping with CA and CB, this video is the look you should be going for:

Last edited by noobSkier on Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby GregM » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:31 pm

In addition to what others correctly point out I want to say that I see your skiing stance as a quite tall one -- your legs are almost straight. The tipping activity range of motion in such case is very limited. Skiing in a more flexed position would increase your tipping range of motion dramatically. Look at the photos of good tipping in this thread and see how much the skier's knees are flexed. You can prove it to yourself in the dry land test. Stand straight and try tipping your foot to LTE, then repeat the same while in semi-squat position.
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Re: I'm in blue (third down the slopes). What all can I impr

Postby tea » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:56 pm

Thank you for the stance suggestion as well. I was able to go to the slopes today, and got a couple of people to film some bits. They are below. I also got a recording of the wedge to phantom exercise, but for some reason the video would not play. I did not realize it until I returned home, but I will try to get it next time I go in a few weeks. The things I changed today (apart from doing more of the chapter 2 and 3 exercises) are:

1. Flex a bit at the knee and the hip to have more of a semi-sitting down stance.
2. Slow down as much as possible.
3. Actually lift the inside leg instead of just lighten. Since I have not been doing this in a while, I had a little bit of difficulty with fore-aft balance, as I was sometimes lifting the whole foot instead of just the heel especially in slightly bumpy terrain as you can see in the second video below - I almost lost it around the middle.
4. Not do pole plants. I was dragging the poles on the snow or kept it well behind in predictable slopes (like in the first video), but had to use my arms for balance in unpredictable slopes (like in the second video).

I am in blue as before. Thoughts on my stance and tipping? Movements that I am doing wrong, and movements I should improve on? I agree that it would be best to focus on stance and tipping first, and get them totally right before moving on to upper body (CB/CA), flexing and fore-aft balancing.



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Re: T's PMTS Journey

Postby tigernbr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:26 pm

Forget short radius for a while. Go to the bunny slope and while traversing the slope, lift and tilt your uphill ski to the little toe edge until you begin to turn into the hill and come to a stop. Practice this on both sides until you can do it. Post video of yourself doing this.
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