Alignment help please

Re: Alignment help please

Postby h.harb » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:42 am

Cuff is way too strong. Alignment canting won't fix this.
Thank you JohnB. This is part of our process and protocol at our Harb Shop in Dumont. We have even designed retrofit cuff hardware to allow for further adjustments than the manufacturers offer. This is the case with Lange, some older Head boots and also Rossignol boots. Junior boots are notorious for poor cuff alignment. Also, on another note stay away from Salomon boots. They have too upright a stance, have little or no adjustments and also don't offer sole canting.
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Re: Alignment help please

Postby Robert0325 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:03 pm

h.harb wrote: Also, on another note stay away from Salomon boots. They have too upright a stance, have little or no adjustments and also don't offer sole canting.

Oh dear, Salomon is the make of boot that I have. Strangely a boot fitter that I went to in the UK to enquire about footbeds (I didn't get them from him in the end, went to Portes Du Ski in Holland and had Harb footbeds fitted there) he said that Salomon boots have too much forward lean :o .
These ski boots are a 2010 model Salomon IMPACT 10 and I have managed to sort out the Cuff alignment now with a modification to the ankle rivets. That's definitely made a difference to my skiing. Is there any chance the forward lean on these older models are ok, or is a lost cause and i should start again with new boots?
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Re: Alignment help please

Postby jbotti » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:30 am

Forward lean and how much is very specific to each body type and the way one skis. Head race boots have 16* FL whereas Lange Race boots have only 12*. I think the dalbello race boots are even more upright at 10*. I cannot ski in the Lange's and even need to slam the Head's more forward with an external heel lift and two spoilers. But I am also 6 3" with the leg length of someone 6 6". Heluva skis in upright boots and has trouble with anything else as too much forward lean is problematic for him him. He is 5 7".

HH's comment on the new Salomon boot is yes they are upright (which can work for some) but also there is limited cuff adjustment and no ability to plate the boots for alignment canting. That's a problem. Older Salomon boots were not always this way although I cant speak to your boots.

I would never try to come up with a online formula for how much FL a skier might need or want, but If you are skiing in Head's with 16* FL with no issue and you aren't fighting being too far forward, odds are you will not like less forward lean in a Lange or Dalbello.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Alignment help please

Postby Robert0325 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:47 pm

jbotti wrote:Forward lean and how much is very specific to each body type and the way one skis. Head race boots have 16* FL whereas Lange Race boots have only 12*. I think the dalbello race boots are even more upright at 10*. I cannot ski in the Lange's and even need to slam the Head's more forward with an external heel lift and two spoilers. But I am also 6 3" with the leg length of someone 6 6". Heluva skis in upright boots and has trouble with anything else as too much forward lean is problematic for him him. He is 5 7".

HH's comment on the new Salomon boot is yes they are upright (which can work for some) but also there is limited cuff adjustment and no ability to plate the boots for alignment canting. That's a problem. Older Salomon boots were not always this way although I cant speak to your boots.

I would never try to come up with a online formula for how much FL a skier might need or want, but If you are skiing in Head's with 16* FL with no issue and you aren't fighting being too far forward, odds are you will not like less forward lean in a Lange or Dalbello.

Thanks jbotti for this information. According to the Harbskisystems website, they are producing a video to help assess fore/aft alignment, so I think I'll wait till then and see if that can help me self diagnose any forward lean issues or not. I don't particularly find myself in the back seat when skiing but what I do notice is that i find it difficult to load the tips of the skis even after practicing foot pull back exercises, but that might just mean I haven't mastered it yet..
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Re: Alignment help please

Postby Max_501 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:52 pm

Robert0325 wrote:I don't particularly find myself in the back seat when skiing but what I do notice is that i find it difficult to load the tips of the skis even after practicing foot pull back exercises, but that might just mean I haven't mastered it yet.


I don't try to load the tips of the skis. Does it happen? Of course, but it is a result of applying the Essentials properly. If you are aft then there really isn't any chance of feeling the tips grab and arc across and up the hill. But lack of Tipping, CA, CB, etc. could also be the reason it doesn't happen.
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Re: Alignment help please

Postby Robert0325 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:48 am

jbotti wrote:Forward lean and how much is very specific to each body type and the way one skis. Head race boots have 16* FL whereas Lange Race boots have only 12*. I think the dalbello race boots are even more upright at 10*. I cannot ski in the Lange's and even need to slam the Head's more forward with an external heel lift and two spoilers. But I am also 6 3" with the leg length of someone 6 6". Heluva skis in upright boots and has trouble with anything else as too much forward lean is problematic for him him. He is 5 7".

HH's comment on the new Salomon boot is yes they are upright (which can work for some) but also there is limited cuff adjustment and no ability to plate the boots for alignment canting. That's a problem. Older Salomon boots were not always this way although I cant speak to your boots.

I would never try to come up with a online formula for how much FL a skier might need or want, but If you are skiing in Head's with 16* FL with no issue and you aren't fighting being too far forward, odds are you will not like less forward lean in a Lange or Dalbello.


For interest I've measured my Salomon Impact 10's using the method outlined on page 26 of the Alignment Manual and get these results:-
Boot size: Mondo point 29.5 so fairly large feet
Boot ramp: 3.5 degrees
Binding pitch: 4.5 degrees (Head PRD 12's mounted on TT80's)
Boot forward lean: 15 degrees (or 16 degrees when clipped into bindings)
So it would seem that the older Salomons such as mine have more forward lean than the newer models.
Assuming I've measure correctly of course !!
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