MA for oggy

MA for oggy

Postby oggy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:27 pm

Hi all,

here is a couple of videos from a few days ago, one with more agressive short turns:



and one with more "two-foot release-type turns", as in this video of Harald (probably my favorite):





These actually represent some decent improvement over a couple of days of skiing, thanks to some old posts of Harald, Max_501 and geoffda - so thanks for that! Still, the turns are lacking compared to Harald's. While the angles I'm getting are not too bad, my skis start to carve late in the turn (below the apex), and I get myself into a weird overly countered position at the apex. I'm stuck at figuring out which movements are at fault. The best I could come up with is defficiencies in outside leg tipping and CB, but I'm not sure of it (and I don't know how these would lead to excessive CA at the apex). Any help would be appreciated!
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby milesb » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:39 am

This may not affect anything, but your head dips down when you flex your legs at release.
More and earlier stance ski tipping would probably help your skiing. You don't seem to have a big toe dominance issue, so I can't see how it would hurt as long as you continue to lead the tipping with the inside ski. Plenty of visible O frame
Also, there is an abrupt manner to your skiing, I can't really describe it better. Compare the smoothness of Harald's skiing, even when he is making quick movements, perhaps something will stand out to you.
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby skijim13 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:20 am

Oggy,
The video show lack of CA in your turns, (as well as hard edge sets) your are becoming square to your skis, you need to hold you CA until you are on your new set of edges. Where to start? If you have the essentials book and videos I would work on all the drills in the videos on upper body movements, use the Hip-O-Meter to develop upper/lower body awareness. Purchase the E video on the angry mother, use the learn to ski free videos on y tube there are ten of them that Dianna produced start with the first one. Work on the two footed release as shown in the video until you think you have it and post the video. I am still working on improving my CA/CB. Tipping thoughout the turn into the end of the turn is important to a turn with energy your tipping needs to be more analog and less digital. Haralds turns looks so great because he uses all the essentials which enables him to have energy left in his skis and his muscles to transition himself into the next turn. Movements such as losing CA, extending, or leg steering rob this energy and require the skier to have to do more work then required to transition into the next turn.
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby Max_501 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:00 am

There are a number of nice turns here, but there is a tendency for balance to move towards the inside foot after the high C. Why is this happening?

CA/CB is inconsistent. Notice that In some of your turns you have great CA/CB but in others it is missing, especially on the right footers (right foot is the stance foot).

- Hand position should support CA/CB. Drive the inside hand forward and up to support CA and CB.

- The pelvis should be included in the CA/CB movement. Take a close look at both but especially CB.

- Hold CA through the release.

The Angry Mother drill progression would be a good place to start.
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby oggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:37 am

Thanks a lot for all the responses!

@Max_501, skijim13: so I guess it's the upper body (plus pelvis). Yes I see the inconsistency, and the right footer is definitely my weak turn. I was hoping it would be something easier :wink: Especially CB, I've been struggling with that since forever. I have the books and the first Angry Mother video, so I'll work with that. A question: from the answers, what I see as excessive CA at the apex (in some, but not all turns) is actually OK?

@milesb: yes, definitely not as smooth as Harald's turns. I still have a tendency to rush the turns, maybe there's a bit of a push somewhere. I haven't noticed the head dip, but my head does tilt a bit weirdly in my left footers...
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby Max_501 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:44 am

oggy wrote:A question: from the answers, what I see as excessive CA at the apex (in some, but not all turns) is actually OK?


Can you post a frame showing the excessive CA?
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby oggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:46 am

In these videos, it only happens on the left footers:

Image

Image

Here's a frame from another video on a right footer. Iit happens rarely on that side, and doesn't seem as inappropriate to my eyes:

Image
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby Max_501 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:55 pm

Maybe its more CA than you need for that particular turn and if you were holding that position throughout the turn and in every turn it could be an issue. But you aren't and you still need more CA in most of your turns so exaggerating until that happens isn't a bad thing. The Essentials Book has more detail on page 142.

h.harb wrote:Image

You want to see the amount of PMTS Counter Acting needed to get the job done, this it.
This is done without hip dumping or "Park and Ride".
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby oggy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:40 am

Got it, thanks!
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby marsound » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:13 pm

Looking at oggy's hips in relationship to his skis in the bottom photo (left turn), not upper body, doesn't look like too much CA to me.
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby Max_501 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:04 pm

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com/2017/ ... kiing.html

If you truly want to develop counter acting movements in your skiing you have to exaggerate. This type of exaggeration, we call "Austrian Counter."
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby Bob_Y » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:13 pm

Hi Oggy,

I agree with your self assessment.

From page 142 of the Essentials Book:

"The harder and faster you tip your skis, the more you have to counteract that effort."

and...

"Counteracting should not be viewed as an effort to reach and hold a position."

You're not tipping hard enough or fast enough to justify the amount of counteraction. As Harald notes in the same section too much CA leads to the skis twisting in transition.

When you flex-to-release into your turn to the left, the tension of your CA unwinds and twists your skis. The tails swing out to the right and at this point your turn is pretty much toast. In fact, it probably leads to an over reaction (i.e. over CA) on the opposite side again, which in turn leads to... I think you get the drift.

I think part of your problem is that you're trying too hard. The stills you posted show a lot of tension starting at the neck. Compare these to Max501's picture which seems to convey a sense of effortless balance against the forces.

My other suggestion is to focus on letting your momentum carry you across your skis i.e. release your edges and give in to the forces. Pages 98 to 101 describe this phase (the float). View the float as a brief moment of relaxation between every turn. I think this will help you find your groove.

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Re: MA for oggy

Postby Max_501 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:20 pm

Harald also says...

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com/2017/ ... kiing.html

If you truly want to develop counter acting movements in your skiing you have to exaggerate.
Last edited by Max_501 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby marsound » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:22 pm

I meant to say "not enough" hip counter in the bottom photo. I agree with Max.
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Re: MA for oggy

Postby DougD » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:52 am

marsound wrote:I meant to say "not enough" hip counter in the bottom photo. I agree with Max.

+1

The hip CA in the first two photos (left footers) seems about right for the amount of tipping. Your shoulders are countered to the same degree, which is how Harald looks in the photo Max posted.

The third photo (right footer) shows less hip CA. The shoulders are turned more than the hips, which suggests that you countered from the top down, rather than from the hips up. CA occurs by rotating the pelvis about the head of the stance leg femur, not by twisting the shoulders.

P. S. Your feet appear to be more forward (or your butt more back) than ideal. You look a bit jacknifed. Diana identified this issue in my skiing and non-skiing posture at camp. I've been working consciously to correct it.
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