MA request for noobSkier

Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:53 am

Max_501 wrote:
DougD wrote:I had the same problem.


Are you sure you had the same problem? Watch the video again and focus on the flexing. Does this skier flex? If so, when does the flexion happen? When should it happen? What movement is missing?


Max_501, the suspense is killing me! Ill take a crack at it. Analyzing the higher quality version on my computer, I've Identified a couple of frames where I think I am flexing.
Image Image

I think the flexing is a bit late, and the missing movement is foot-pullback...although this frame isn't the best example of that because I think theres *some* foot-pullback going on here.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby Max_501 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:11 am

I was referring to flexing and extending. If you are already flexed at the apex and through the bottom of the arc it is difficult to flex even more to release. Watch HH's example of this type of turn in the Essentials Flexing DVD and notice the timing and amount of flexing AND how he allows his outside leg to get longer after the flex to release movement. Does your outside lengthen as the turn is developing?
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby DougD » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:18 am

Max_501 wrote:
DougD wrote:I had the same problem.

Are you sure you had the same problem? Watch the video again and focus on the flexing. Does this skier flex? If so, when does the flexion happen? When should it happen? What movement is missing?

Are you sure you had the same problem? Well, I sometimes did before camp. Not since (except perhaps when skiing terrain/snow that challenges my mastery of PMTS movements).

Does this skier flex? Yes

If so, when does the flexion happen? From the apex into the bottom of the arc

When should it happen? From the beginning of the Release through Transfer and new edge Engagement (end of high C)

What movement is missing? Releasing

You're good at this. You should be a coach! :lol:

noobSkier, consider reviewing the Releasing sections of ACBAES1, particularly Chapters 4 and 6. Pay close attention to HH's instructions on when to REDUCE pressure on the stance foot/ski vs. when to allow that pressure to INCREASE.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby Max_501 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:22 am

Outside leg extension is the missing movement I'm referring to above. Without that there isn't anything to flex.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby DougD » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:57 am

Max_501 wrote:Outside leg extension is the missing movement I'm referring to above. Without that there isn't anything to flex.

Well, he is flexing the outside leg... but at the phase of the turn when it should be lengthening... and vice-versa. Seems like a timing issue to me :?
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby Max_501 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:06 pm

DougD wrote:Well, he is flexing the outside leg... but at the phase of the turn when it should be lengthening... and vice-versa. Seems like a timing issue to me :?


As I alluded to above. However, this skier is working so hard to avoid extension at the release that has lost the natural leg extension needed earlier in the arc, so it is more than a simple timing issue.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:15 pm

Max_501 wrote:
DougD wrote:Well, he is flexing the outside leg... but at the phase of the turn when it should be lengthening... and vice-versa. Seems like a timing issue to me :?


As I alluded to above. However, this skier is working so hard to avoid extension at the release that has lost the natural leg extension needed earlier in the arc, so it is more than a simple timing issue.


Thanks Max_501, you are a gentleman and a scholar! Should I expect to feel some resistance to the stance ski extension?
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby Max_501 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:27 pm

noobSkier wrote:Should I expect to feel some resistance to the stance ski extension?


At the top of the turn there shouldn't be any resistance, if I feel that I know I'm pushing too hard to get a long leg. As I hit and pass the apex the outside ski tip will really bite into the snow and it takes more muscular effort to maintain a longer outside leg. At that point I can feel plenty of pressure on the stance foot and leg.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby mardale » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:04 am

There is a difference between the videos 4, 5 and the TFR 2.

In 4 and 5 there is extension, but it starts at the release and continues into the next turn. There is flexing there as well, but not to release, just before the release (i.e. too early), when the leg should just stay long.

In the TFR 2 there is no extension - you focused on the flexing so much, you completely erased the extension, but you need to extend at the top of the turn, in order to have something to flex at the bottom, like Max noted.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby DougD » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:09 am

Very helpful, Max.

Once I began flexing-to-release I asked myself the obvious question: when/how should my stance leg re-lengthen? As you noted, one can't keep flexing a leg forever.

Here's my understanding (comments welcome):

1. Once the new edges engage (due to tipping), we ALLOW the stance leg to lengthen just enough to maintain snow contact. No pushing during this phase, as you noted. Any attempt to add PRESSURE above the apex is likely to cause loss of edgehold and a skid. HH has often chastised race commentators for talking about early pressure.

2. At the turn's apex and below, forces in the stance ski begin to increase. We push just enough to resist these increasing forces of the turn and gravity.

Footnote: the better one's upper body essentials, the less one needs to push on the stance leg. Effective CA and (especially) CB build skeletal stacking, which eases the burden on the quads.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby l2ski » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:22 am

Max_501 wrote:Outside leg extension is the missing movement I'm referring to above. Without that there isn't anything to flex.


On some days I have a problem with this as well.
What are the reasons why the outside leg is
not extending? Once the skier is tipped on the new edges, if the skier focuses
on the free foot tipping to LTE, pull back, and flexing,
the outside leg should just naturally extend so the ski
remains in contact with the snow and follows the arc.
But it's possible to hold back the outside leg from extending.
Can this happen if all other movements with the inside half are correct,
or does the skier need to be somewhat active with the outside leg extension?
Could it be due to lack of early counter balance or due to being aft?

Edit:

The thread, "Short Turn MA", by jepoupatout, contains great information on outside leg extension:

http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3972&start=15

Of course, the Essentials book is another excellent source.
But I still don't fully understand what the cause is in this case or in my case.
Last edited by l2ski on Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:06 am

Max_501 wrote:At the top of the turn there shouldn't be any resistance, if I feel that I know I'm pushing too hard to get a long leg. As I hit and pass the apex the outside ski tip will really bite into the snow and it takes more muscular effort to maintain a longer outside leg. At that point I can feel plenty of pressure on the stance foot and leg.


Max_501, where I ski we get some really nasty conditions. What gives me the most trouble is when we have loose snow + patches of pure ice (impossible to avoid). I can carve through it well enough if my CA is there, but whenever I try to brush I often skid and lose balance on the patches of pure ice. Im aware of what HH says about skiing on ice:

h.harb wrote:Making skis work on ice is a matter of progressive tipping and strong, yet delicate application of counteracting. Doesn't matter about two or one foot, it's how you apply tipping without "any" hip or torso rotation to accompany it.


Is this equally valid for brushed turns as it is for edge-locked turns? And if yes, does one need an ungodly level of PMTS mastery to actually brush through patches of pure ice without skidding at all?
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:24 pm

Here is a new video of me trying some brushed turns down a steeper pitch. I was working on flexing to release while making sure that the stance ski extension was still there...I can't tell if it was enough though. Thanks for all the comments so far, feel free to add more! :)

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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby l2ski » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:20 pm

I see better counteracting, but I see you rising / extending
while on the old edges, unless I have been fooled by the upside down pendulum effect.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby Jeet » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:41 am

If you are working on flex to release how much time have you spent doing the boot touch drills. If your not sure what that is is there are some youtube videos on HH channel and there is "Boot Touch Flexing eVideo " on the website. Spend a day or two just doing this drill and the gains will be huge. The content and quality of the video is great it will give you plenty to work on.

I think working on flexing to release whilst you just free ski will be the long road to improvement and it may never happen. Sometimes drilling is the only way. Do the drills as Harald has instructed in the video for a day or two and I bet your next MA video will be a great improvement.


BTW, I am working on the same thing.

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