MA request for noobSkier

Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:56 pm

Thanks for the comments gentlemen...I had to take some time off from skiing recently to actually get some work done! Im back at it now, so ill probably be able to post some videos this week...and hopefully we will see some improvement.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby DougD » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 am

Jeet wrote:I think working on any Primary or Essential Movement whilst you just free ski will be the long road to improvement and it may never happen. Sometimes drilling is the only way. Do the drills as Harald has instructed in the video for a day or two and I bet your next MA video will be a great improvement.

Fixed this for you. :lol:
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby mardale » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Although you are flexing just before the release, you are extending to release again. You're close, but you have to figure out the right timing for flex/extend.

Do a lot of power releases. In fact just ski like that for a while - that drill will teach you the timing of flexion. Lookup the drill on youtube.

Also, touch your boots in transition. That's also good for timing the flex/extend.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:32 pm

mardale wrote:Although you are flexing just before the release, you are extending to release again. You're close, but you have to figure out the right timing for flex/extend.

Do a lot of power releases. In fact just ski like that for a while - that drill will teach you the timing of flexion. Lookup the drill on youtube.

Also, touch your boots in transition. That's also good for timing the flex/extend.


Thanks for the suggestions...looking forward to trying these out.

I ventured out to some steeper stuff today, and I was actually surprised at how much control I was feeling. Any improvements here?

https://youtu.be/fbWE0ekHPYg

BTW, is embedding videos broken? It stopped working?
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby mardale » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:59 pm

I see you flexing from the apex to the pole plant and extending from the pole plant through transition... so again, pushing off to release.

You have to flex through the edge change instead.

Do the drills. You're close.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby DougD » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:20 am

mardale wrote:I see you flexing from the apex to the pole plant and extending from the pole plant through transition... so again, pushing off to release.

You have to flex through the edge change instead.

Do the drills. You're close.

+1... as discussed above
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:37 pm

mardale wrote:I see you flexing from the apex to the pole plant and extending from the pole plant through transition... so again, pushing off to release.

You have to flex through the edge change instead.

Do the drills. You're close.


Thanks for the advice mardale. I couldn't see what you were talking about until I played it slow motion. Good eye. Should there be ANY flexing from the apex to the pole plant?
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby l2ski » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:29 am

noobSkier wrote:Thanks for the advice mardale. I couldn't see what you were talking about until I played it slow motion. Good eye. Should there be ANY flexing from the apex to the pole plant?


I believe I found the answer to this in HH, Essentials of Skiing, pp. 90-91. The diagram on pg 91 describes
where extension and flexing occur during the arc.

Here's something on pg. 90 by HH:

"you'll time your release according to the pressure building under your skis. When I feel the
load building under my skis, when they start to push back at me, I know that they are engaged in an arc.
Just before my skis slice across the hill (there's a spatial reference), I initiate release with
a controlled flexing of the downhill leg."

I understand this as keep the stance leg extended until you begin the release.

I'm also learning from this thread!
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby DougD » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:09 am

noobSkier wrote:Thanks for the advice mardale. I couldn't see what you were talking about until I played it slow motion. Good eye. Should there be ANY flexing from the apex to the pole plant?

Generally, no.

Flexing (except to absorb a terrain irregularity) releases the skis. If you release the skis during the bottom portion of a turn (where the forces of speed, gravity and angular momentum are increasing to their maximum) then one of two things will normally happen:
    (i) you complete the release and transition into the next turn (as described in the text just quoted by l2ski); or
    (ii) your skis will break away into a skid.
EXCEPTION: an expert might partially release their skis mid-turn to adjust their line, then re-engage to complete the turn. However, re-engaging a skidding ski is very difficult, so this is NOT recommended by HH for adjusting turn shape in most situations. This is an emergency tactic one might use to make a last second line adjustment in bumps or to avoid some unexpected obstacle. Even then, you'd prefer to do it as early in the arc as possible.

Yes, HH has posted videos of drills that involve mid-turn release and re-engagement. But that drill is intended to teach finer control of tipping movements to a skier who has already mastered basic PMTS movements. Skiers still working on the Primary Movements should master the drills in order.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby mardale » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:12 am

noobSkier wrote:Should there be ANY flexing from the apex to the pole plant?


Not really. But then again, the pole touch should signal the start of the release, the start of flexing... so the timing of the pole plant itself matters. But flexing and releasing are independent of the pole plant (say during a drill) - I mentioned that as a reference in relation to your video.

There are some ideas on deciding when to start the release, above (pressure under the outside foot).

There are some uses for flexing before the release, something you could look at after you nail the release.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby Max_501 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:02 pm

Refresher...

Max_501 wrote:Does this skier flex? If so, when does the flexion happen? When should it happen? What movement is missing?


Max_501 wrote:I was referring to flexing and extending. If you are already flexed at the apex and through the bottom of the arc it is difficult to flex even more to release. Watch HH's example of this type of turn in the Essentials Flexing DVD and notice the timing and amount of flexing AND how he allows his outside leg to get longer after the flex to release movement. Does your outside lengthen as the turn is developing?


Max_501 wrote:Outside leg extension is the missing movement I'm referring to above. Without that there isn't anything to flex.


Max_501 wrote:...this skier is working so hard to avoid extension at the release that he has lost the natural leg extension needed earlier in the arc, so it is more than a simple timing issue.


There is a very good reason why Chapter 3 of Essentials of Skiing has the title: Flexing and Extending.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:07 am

Max_501 wrote:Refresher...

Max_501 wrote:Does this skier flex? If so, when does the flexion happen? When should it happen? What movement is missing?


Max_501 wrote:I was referring to flexing and extending. If you are already flexed at the apex and through the bottom of the arc it is difficult to flex even more to release. Watch HH's example of this type of turn in the Essentials Flexing DVD and notice the timing and amount of flexing AND how he allows his outside leg to get longer after the flex to release movement. Does your outside lengthen as the turn is developing?


Max_501 wrote:Outside leg extension is the missing movement I'm referring to above. Without that there isn't anything to flex.


Max_501 wrote:...this skier is working so hard to avoid extension at the release that he has lost the natural leg extension needed earlier in the arc, so it is more than a simple timing issue.


There is a very good reason why Chapter 3 of Essentials of Skiing has the title: Flexing and Extending.


Thanks for bringing this back into focus Max_501. What you said earlier is so evident in my latest skiing... will work on flexing drills!
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby geoffda » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:59 pm

When you practice flexing, practice keeping your shins pressed against the tongues of your boots so that you move down without moving back. What is happening in the brushed carve video is that instead of flexing properly, you are sitting back. Squatting is not flexing. The timing is wrong as well. As your skis track around the bottom third of the turn, that is when you aggressively try to flex both legs and end up bottoming out in the back seat. You don't actually accomplish a release when you do this, so you end up having to extend to start the new turn because you have maxed out your flexion and you are out of balance fore-aft-wise.

Releasing is accomplished primarily by flexing the old stance leg and flattening that foot. In order to release the turn, you have to get off the old stance foot, and flexing the old stance leg (along with flattening the old stance ski) both begins the balance transfer and effects a release by ceasing to resist the forces pulling you to the outside of the turn. The amount of flexion needed for release is actually fairly minimal; often simply relaxing the old stance leg is sufficient to accomplish a release. However, the higher the edge angles of the old turn, the more aggressively the old stance leg must be flexed in order to suck it up so that the new free foot can roll over and allow the hips to move across into the new turn.

To develop a release, start in a gentle traverse and practice flexing the downhill leg enough so that you can tip the ski flat (towards little toe edge). Allow the uphill ski to flatten and follow, but only after the downhill ski goes flat. If you do this correctly, the tips will drop towards the fall line. As soon as this happens, tip the ski that was uphill when you started the traverse towards little-toe-edge. This will pull the downhill ski onto big-toe-edge. Ride the gentle arc back up the hill until the skis point back across the fall line. Then repeat. If you allow your skis to point up the hill, you will need to flex the downhill leg much more aggressively in order to get a release. Don't forget to flatten along with flexing! Make sure you have some counter-acting as you try this (that is, the zipper on your jacket should face down the hill as you traverse).

Developing a release is a surprisingly difficult task. It helps to be moving, which is why I would suggest starting with a garland. Alternatively, you can do this from a forward side-slip. Either approach is much easier than attempting to release from a stationary start. Do practice the movements of release while standing on a flat, but add movement before trying to actually achieve a release.

Working on the release should help you begin to understand how to coordinate flexing with tipping as well as recognizing that the focus should be on flexing the old stance leg. The old free leg should already be flexed at the end of the old turn and it will begin lengthening once you release. At the point in which the skis are flat to the snow, there will be a moment where both legs are evenly flexed. As you move into the new turn, the new free leg will continue to shorten and the new stance leg will continue to lengthen until the apex of the new turn is reached--at which point the stance leg will need to begin to flex (shorten) to continue tipping and bring the stance ski back underneath the hips for the next release.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:13 am

Thanks for the thorough analysis geoffda, I look forward to putting that knowledge to use! If all goes to plan I'll be able to ski 100+ days this year, and I intend to collect video at least twice a week. The brushed-carve is so frustratingly hard. I didn't record video all through April, and I feel like I made improvements in the timing of the flex; reason being, my brushed-turns started to feel very similar to my carved-turns (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOyu1-lJbdM). Of course, I haven't confirmed that with video so I'm not bullish on it.
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Re: MA request for noobSkier

Postby noobSkier » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:20 pm

My battle with the PMTS brushed-carve continues. My goal this year is to build a correct release. This was identified as my biggest issue last season, and I've been working hard all summer on my carvers trying to develop the correct timing. I can see in the video that my CA/CB isn't sufficient, and towards the end it looks like I just abandoned the concept altogether. I'm starting early with the video this season, and as painful as it may be, I'm convinced that its the only way to get better! Please MA me :)

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