Stephane - MA Request

Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:02 pm

No idea why you quoted an non-PMTS instructor in the PMTS MA forum or how his ideas regarding style relate to this thread, but here is a quote from HH on style.


Best statement on this thread about style vs technique. PSIA and CSIA have no idea how to get style or achieve movement technique that the best skiers in the world use. So bringing their ideas here is a waste of everyone's time. CSIA calls my skiing finesse skiing and their's they call "power skiing". This is a direct quote from a level 4 CSIA, who has no idea why he was a power skier and I am a what he calls, a "finesse skier". In fact, for us it was easy to see why they say that, he steered and pivoted and had a hard hit at the end of his turn. They call this "power skiing", a euphemism for bad technique and adaptive movements, now that's an ugly "style of skiing"!!!

HH, revised quote 2017:
PMTS doesn't take away your ability to have your own personal style away. Style is different than "function", it's personal and has to do with "flexibility", retraction, a certain way you hold your arms and hands and your body proportions. In a total way it is related to CA. The biggest difference is flexibility. Diana and I rarely stiffen up during the curve of the arc, we continue tipping movements with appropriate counter acting throughout the turn and range of the arc.. Especially noticeable on steep slopes. This gives our skiing a relaxed flowing, uninterrupted feature which obvious the CSIA Level 4s don't understand..
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:05 pm

On another note, I know ski school directors and regional technical directors in Canada who follow and totally believe in PMTS. They say CSIA is so far off the tracks, they can't understand anything they are trying to do with their teaching and certification.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:12 pm

In my posts here, I never said that Stephane didn't improve, I'm sure he did. However his SIMM is counter acting. The upper body, with the arms included are moving through the turn as one unit, very little separation between upper and lower. The first thing to address is the hands and arms, they have to get wider to loosen up. The old "push both hands forward" idea is not working, never has, but it's still part of what skiers were told by PSIA and CSIA.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby h.harb » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:48 pm

We have gone full circle now Yin, Yang. Tipping is the most important Essential it can be argued. Without it, you can't get the control and angles everyone wants, that's for sure. However, if your upper body erases your ability to tip, you have to fix that first. The upper body is a much bigger and more powerful mass and when it rotates or follows; it's destroying the lower body's more subtle tipping ability. And for that simple reason, you can' t hold an edge at the end of an arc. Rotating the hips and torso flattens the back of the skis. If your hips square up, or your rear end is over the tail of your skis, tipping or in this case, un-tipping, (releasing) to tip again, will never happen.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby h.harb » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:49 pm

It's all so simple, but we make it so complex.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby Robert0325 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:28 am

Well I thought I at least understood the theory of PMTS even if I didn't know how to put it into practice. However I think I've missed something basic along the way. Until reading this post my perception was that you come out of counter as you release, but if i understand correctly you stay in counter until you have released?
When I think about this further, it probably makes sense, when I review HH's and Diana's slow release drills (the ones where you come to a complete stop at the end of each turn) they start in counter and finish in counter.
Please let me know if I've now figured this out correctly?
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby Max_501 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:41 am

Robert0325 wrote:Well I thought I at least understood the theory of PMTS even if I didn't know how to put it into practice. However I think I've missed something basic along the way. Until reading this post my perception was that you come out of counter as you release, but if i understand correctly you stay in counter until you have released?
When I think about this further, it probably makes sense, when I review HH's and Diana's slow release drills (the ones where you come to a complete stop at the end of each turn) they start in counter and finish in counter.
Please let me know if I've now figured this out correctly?


This quote from an MA HH shared should help.

h.harb wrote:He comes out of his Counter acting hip relationship, (squares up) before the turn is over, right at the transition. Which means he is already square to his skis in or before edge transition. This should not be happening. He should work on holding that counter acted relationship through the transition and transfer to the uphill outside edge, LTE and get balanced before changing edges. Next, due to this squaring up of the hips, a number of other compensations have to follow, and they are, extension off the outside ski (or a push) and also pushing the new outside ski flat before he balances on it. This makes him late for establishing balance and pressure for the next turn.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby Max_501 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:13 pm

sym95734, I've got a few frames to add visuals to the MAs from HH and Geoff showing why CA is your SMIM.

Image

In this frame you've done a great with both CA (Counter Acting) and CB (Counter Balance) as you are building the arc.

Image

This is the release following the first frame and you are still holding onto some CA which is a great! On your left footers (left foot is the stance ski turning to the right) the goal is to become more consistent so you are holding CA during the release on every turn.

Image

This frame shows the difference between your left and right turns. Compare this shot to the 1st image above and you'll see a big change in CA and CB. On this side the goad is to add CA (your SMIM) and CB.

As you work through CA drills (my favorite is the Angry Mother) work on both sides, remember to exaggerate the movements and verify that you are getting CA, especially on the right footer (right foot is the stance ski turning to the left). Have you done any dryland work for CA in front of a mirror? That was a big help for me.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby Robert0325 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:22 am

Max_501 wrote:
Robert0325 wrote:Well I thought I at least understood the theory of PMTS even if I didn't know how to put it into practice. However I think I've missed something basic along the way. Until reading this post my perception was that you come out of counter as you release, but if i understand correctly you stay in counter until you have released?
When I think about this further, it probably makes sense, when I review HH's and Diana's slow release drills (the ones where you come to a complete stop at the end of each turn) they start in counter and finish in counter.
Please let me know if I've now figured this out correctly?


This quote from an MA HH shared should help.

h.harb wrote:He comes out of his Counter acting hip relationship, (squares up) before the turn is over, right at the transition. Which means he is already square to his skis in or before edge transition. This should not be happening. He should work on holding that counter acted relationship through the transition and transfer to the uphill outside edge, LTE and get balanced before changing edges. Next, due to this squaring up of the hips, a number of other compensations have to follow, and they are, extension off the outside ski (or a push) and also pushing the new outside ski flat before he balances on it. This makes him late for establishing balance and pressure for the next turn.


Thank you Max - got it!. Just downloaded the Angry Mother 1 video as well and that really helps to clarify.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby h.harb » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:54 am

Now we are headed in the right direction. Creating counter and holding counter are two different things. If you create it, you have to increase it until the end of the arc, and transfer, which means flex the legs while still holding it. We have numerous downloadable videos on the web site about developing and releasing counter acting. IS this easy, if you have stiffness in your body, or are tight when skiing, of course not. David Chodounsky can at times ski like a top 5 skier in the world, a US Ski Team slalom skier, but when he loses time or crashes out, it's always on his left turn. Why? Because he rotates his hip, squares up. Even at this level, counter acting is the key, without it you can't release properly. That is why the PSIA instructor looks so goofy when skiing.
`
Of course canting or alignment is part of this deal. if you are over canted, it's really tough to stop rotating or squaring up. An over canted set up or bowlegged skier, uses or has to use some hip rotation to help finish the turn. Therefore counter is lost. PMTS and Harb Camps are the only teaching system in the world that understand relationship between canting and movements. We have developed our whole system and accreditation around it. Even knowing that, it's not obvious, it takes a highly skilled eye to see all these thing. That's why we have only about 12 instructors accredited who are trained well enough to see and fix these things.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby speedcontrol » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:57 pm

I'm sorry if I somehow interrupt the professional discussion here, but here is what I notice very often on the MA section ( and I almost never post on the MA threads and seldom on the others) What I notice is this (and this is what stops me from opening my own MA thread here) - someone posts a video and...... no one from the coaches here answeres for ages ( see when Stephane posted his video and when someone offered an opinion on his skiing - more then a month later and the winter is short) Then someone else who is not necessarily a coach offers his opinion and analysis and then the shooting starts.The analysis of the non coach should be quilotined ( as mentioned earlier) , this becomes the bulk of the discussion and the poor skier who dared to post a video of his skiing will need to wait another month until he gets a valid advise on what to work and on what to concentrate until the end of the season.Instead of a short and concentrated technical discussion it normally becomes a long long ' reglement de comptes ' that is somehow useless both for the OP and for most of the forum readers. I am sorry if I hurt someone's feelings here and I apologize for my mistakes ( English is not my first language), but this is the movie I have been watching here again and again in many MA and not only MA threads.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby Robert0325 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:50 am

Speedcontrol – I know what you mean and have had similar thoughts myself. Someone posts MA, another member offers advice but then gets contradicted by one of the experts, then a general argument ensues that possibly doesn’t help the original contributor. BUT, this is an open forum for members to give their views and the experts give their advice for FREE so I don’t believe we can criticise them for the time it takes to get an answer.

Time lapse aside I think Stephane has received some really useful advice and along the way it’s helped me, despite reading ALL of HH’s books*, to realise the importance of holding on to CA through the release. And helping all members in the forum is surely what it’s all about..

*This was a criticism of me, not the books. I’m sure it’s in one or more of them, it just didn’t sink in when I read them!
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby Max_501 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:08 am

speedcontrol wrote:I'm sorry if I somehow interrupt the professional discussion here, but here is what I notice very often on the MA section ( and I almost never post on the MA threads and seldom on the others) What I notice is this (and this is what stops me from opening my own MA thread here) - someone posts a video and...... no one from the coaches here answeres for ages ( see when Stephane posted his video and when someone offered an opinion on his skiing - more then a month later and the winter is short) Then someone else who is not necessarily a coach offers his opinion and analysis and then the shooting starts.The analysis of the non coach should be quilotined ( as mentioned earlier) , this becomes the bulk of the discussion and the poor skier who dared to post a video of his skiing will need to wait another month until he gets a valid advise on what to work and on what to concentrate until the end of the season.Instead of a short and concentrated technical discussion it normally becomes a long long ' reglement de comptes ' that is somehow useless both for the OP and for most of the forum readers. I am sorry if I hurt someone's feelings here and I apologize for my mistakes ( English is not my first language), but this is the movie I have been watching here again and again in many MA and not only MA threads.


I reviewed all MA posts from 2016 and in nearly every case a solid MA was provided within days. Even this thread had a good response from milesb, one of the forum regulars, posted quickly and some of us were waiting for the OP's reply to Miles post below.

milesb wrote:I don't think a MA would be very productive, seeing as you had great in person instruction. What would be helpful to forum members is for you to describe the instruction you had, and how that worked for you.


The OP never answered so the thread stalled.

The MA area of the PMTS forum is open so anyone can use it as a learning tool and provide a full Movement Analysis (MA) attempting to identify the Single Most Important Movement (SMIM). But a student doing that needs to accept the reality that corrections to student submitted content are often needed. The same holds true for all of the other topic areas on the PMTS site.
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby jbotti » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:59 am

Free MA, eventually from top level PMTS coaches. I really don't think there is a lot for people to be complaining about. HH gets $1000 per day for a lesson yet when he has the time he is willing to look at video and give MA just because one posts here. It remains the best way for people to progress if they cant make it to a camp or a private lesson.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Stephane - MA Request

Postby speedcontrol » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:41 am

To Max_ 501 and jbotti : I'm aware that HHarb charges 1000$ a day for a lesson and I'm perfectly ok with this and I also got some services from HH ski shop so I'm aware of the price list. However this is a MA section of a forum and my previous post was to attract your attention to the fact that this section must be used way more for MA and technical stuff and way less for politics and shooting in all directions.(may be the social chat section is better suited for this)I'm aware that probably most of the members here are retired and have all the time in the world , but I am a working person , my winter is short and busy and I log on here for the real stuff only.For everything else I can log elsewhere. In this particular thread I needed to read around 35 more or less useless for me posts only to find 3 valuable MA - one from geoffda almost one month after the video was posted and 2 from HHarb in the same time-frame. Max_501 also offered his input almost a month later and not as a coach, but as a forum police to kill another poster who finally offered his MA after the long waiting. I don't understand this - someone posts a video , the coaches remain in silence for almost a month , then someone else finally offers an MA and then all of a sudden the coaches have all the time to appear and start shooting.Again I don't get it ! And here is my constructive idea : if Max_501 is a qualified PMTS coach he should be liberated from his role as a forum policeman in order to be on the front line, much more available as a coach in the MA threads and to react rapidly when someone posts a video with his own analyses rather then to react on other MA posters. I'm sure that after his post in a MA thread there won't be many other MA attempts and the MA threads will be short, constructive and most importantly useful for a great number of readers like me who compare their skiing with the video posted and try to benefit from the analyses and to correct their own skiing. At the same time I'm sure there are other longtime trusted forum members who are not necessarily coaches, but who are qualified enough to serve as forum police and to watch out for non pmts analyses and posts.
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