Movement Analysis for zeK

Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby zeK » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:36 am

Hi guys, I have been an avid follower of the PMTS system and have skiied a few times a year for about 3-4 years followed by an injury which made me stop. However one of my friends has dragged me out again this season and the desire to improve has finally infected me. Never taking lessons my skiing was very sloppy I decided to pick up some skiis of my own (Volki VWERKS RTM 176 CM) and Some Salomon XPro100 Custom Shell boots. After dropping serious cash on the skiis and boots I just wanted to ski more and more and then ended up stumbling onto Haralds videos on youtube. Quickly realizing this guy looked different from a lot of the information online I decided to try some of his stuff. I have picked up The essentials evideos first followed on How to Be an Expert Skier 1 and 2. and then the Free skiing Video. Starting to slowly apply some of the principals starting with tipping I started lurking this forum and saw this subforum.

I would love for you guys to tell me where I need to improve and which exercises I should focus on most, I have been doing phantom turns and tried the TFR a few runs, Also I really wanted to learn how to do short turns and I was wondering if it is detrimental for me to try to learn with 18 meter radius Skis.

[vimeo]<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/120241087" width="500" height="375" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="https://vimeo.com/120241087">VID-20150220-00004</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user37640578">Mikhail Natchetoi</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>[/vimeo]

I have been going 15+ times this year and am really determined to make progress, rip me a new one please)

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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby DougD » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:22 am

Hi zeK,

Welcome to the forum and congrats on finding PMTS. HH is the only ski coach bringing World Cup level skiing movements to recreational skiers in an organized program. You stumbled on the best.

I'm a PMTS follower but not a certified coach, so take my comments for what they're worth. If a PMTS coach chimes in, follow his/her advice before mine.

Before commenting on your video, a few comments on your comments...

LEARNING PROGRESSION
Deciding to ski using PMTS is great but "just trying some of his stuff" won't get you very far. PMTS is an organized learning progression. The basic drills in ACBAES train your body in movements that form the basis for more advanced maneuvers. Dipping into Essentials or Free Skiing before mastering the drills in ACBAES1, then ACBAES2 is a mistake. That would be like jumping into a F1 race before learning how to drive a car around the neighborhood. BTW, the TFR is an advanced skill, not to be learned until more basic movements are dialed in. So... put Essentials away. Forget the Free Skiing vids for a while. Open ACBAES1 and start on page 1. Skipping ahead will only cause you problems.

SKIS
Yes, it is detrimental to attempt to learn PMTS on 18m radius skis. I have a pair of 14m radius skis and even they are not ideal. A TR of 12-13m will make learning PMTS basics MUCH easier. Also, unless you're 100kg+, a 176cm ski is too long. Finally, many Volkyl models are too stiff for learning PMTS movements. If you can't flex the ski into an arc during a 10kph turn on a green slope, it's going to impair your progress. There's lots of talk on the Gear forum here about PMTS-suitable skis. Read some of those threads for direction on more appropriate skis.

BOOTS
I don't know whether those Salomon boots are PMTS suitable. Even if they are, no one can tell via the internet whether they're suitable for you. As you didn't mention it, I presume they were not fitted and aligned by a PMTS certified fitter. If that's true, they may impair your development. I've been skiing 30 years and have had many bootfittings, some of which I thought were done well. They weren't. Until my boots were set up and modifed by a PMTS certified fitter, my skiing movements were impaired without my understanding why. If you can get to a PMTS fitter for an alignment check, run, don't walk. The more days you ski with a sub-optimal boot setup, the more damage you'll do to your skiing. You may also aggravate that old injury (especially if it's knee related). This is important!

VIDEO
The first thing I noticed was that you begin each turn with an extension (straightening or lengthening of the new stance leg). This undermines every aspect of PMTS. For PMTS to work you must release by flexing. This is a core PMTS requirement. Take it from me and many others, unlearning that release by extension takes a concentrated, devoted and ongoing effort. The way to do is is laid out by HH in the books.

So... open ACBAES1, start on page 1 and do every drill until you've mastered it. Anyone CAN become an expert skier, but there are no shortcuts. :)
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby zeK » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:36 pm

First of I would like you to thank you for taking the time to analyze me. However, during those turns I was actually focusing on staying bent, and flexing my legs to release, and I am very well aware of what extending is. Considering I didn't ski for 4 years i pretty much had to start from scratch almost(the bad habits were not ingrained into my system yet considering i only went couple of times per year in my teen years)...

I have been practicing phantoms all day before that video, and I am able to balance on one foot throughout the arcs(even did the mini javelin exercise)...

My friend was also researching boot alignment due to the fact that I am having blisters on my right foot above the bit toe from tipping the leg and I think this is due me being knock kneed in my boots. Since we do not have a Harb alignment center nearby we are going to try to fix the canter ourselves for now. I will post a picture of my feet later on if any of you are proficient enough to tell me whether it has worked.

As for the progression I am well aware, and I always try to start my day with drills, even though our hill over here in Ottawa is tiny(the lift takes 5 minutes while it takes 15-30 seconds to go down even if you are doing excercies :( ) I really hope I can get all my alignment issues somewhat sorted out so I can at least continue skiing this season. Next year I for sure want to attend a A Harb Camp and get all my boot stuff sorted out. I would appreciate any further feedback. I will keep posting videos and pics.
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby Max_501 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:40 am

zeK, there is an early extension evident in at least a couple of the turns. Do you have any video showing the phantom move?
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby zeK » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:11 pm

Went skiing again today, after 7 hours of attempting to mixing up doing phantom turns and trying to do short turns with a quiet upper body I have got mixed results... I have to start with the fact that I realized I was very knock need, even in that previous video, my buddy sashalex who also has a MA thread did some research on alignment and we decided to try out some high density foam packing to fix the canting of my boots. We put 2cm on each boot cause it was pretty severe, after which my knees aligned with my boot centers. I did feel a bit more in balance you could say but I was still have some issues.

You can kind of judge by the videos

Over in this video I am trying to do short turns lifting the inside leg completely of the ground and just balancing over the outside ski, obviously you can see me lose balance quite a few times here, trying to see if its still an issue with the canting or that extension...



This is a bit later in the day about 3-4 hours in I am trying to do phantom turns on another hill



I feel like my balance over my right ski (turning left is worse for some reason that is the boot with a bit more tape on it). As for the Skis I put 1400$ into them, is it really impossible to learn PMTS on an 18m ski???
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby DougD » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:21 am

2cm of high density foam? Where did you put that much material? The only place I can imagine is inside the boot cuffs, which wouldn't address stance issues effectively. Shoving your shin outward (or inward) inside the boot would undermine your foot/ski connection and reduce your foot's natural range of motion to make skiing movements. Not recommended.

Stance correction is not addressed by fussing with your boot cuffs. The only purpose of cuff adjustment is to match the size and shape of your lower legs. That's important, but it has nothing to do with moving the skier into a balanced, neutral stance.

Stance correction is done by placing cants (ie, wedges) beneath the boot soles. It requires someone who understands how to evaluate your stance and adjust it, first in the shop, then on snow. It also requires grinding the boot lugs, as otherwise the cants may interfere with binding function and prevent the skis from releasing. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

I admire your enthusiasm! But attempting to DIY this without expert guidance is unproductive and potentially dangerous.

***
Can you learn PMTS on 18m skis? Sure, but it will take longer, require more work and you may not reach your full potential. It takes an expert (which I'm not, despite 30 years of skiing) to perform good PMTS movements on such a ski. Whether they cost $14 or $14,000 doesn't affect this.

I feel your pain, since I made the same mistake a few seasons before I discovered PMTS - twice! I bought two pairs of skis, $2K worth of gear, and neither of them is ideal for PMTS. They're both more suitable than an 18m ski, but it only took 2-3 turns on demo skis recommended by HHS to realize how much I'd been missing. Live and learn. :(

***
I'll leave MA of your new videos to Max or other more qualified PMTS eyes.
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby zeK » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:14 am

https://imageshack.us/i/idycxTNxj
https://imageshack.us/i/eyBwxxYgj

Here is the shot of what was done with the boots and me wearing them. Hope this helps to analyze how bad my canting problems are, and what should i do to be able to be back on the hill an continue learning PMTS
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby Kiwi » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:30 pm

This mod is not going to help and may well make it worse. The basics of alignment are set out in ACBAES 1. I see no effective tipping or commitment to the stance leg.

I think you need to slow everything down and start working through the essentials beginning with the tipping.
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:34 pm

Take a look at your video in slowmo....when you do, you will see that at the end of each turn, your feet are separating and when you transfer your weight by lifting up the old stance ski - the tip is being raised...

When you finish the end of your turns, you should be completely committed to balancing on the outside ski. As you start your transition and make the balance transfer to the old free foot, it is onto the LTE. Once the weight has been transferred and you are balancing on on the LTE of the new stance foot, you begin to TIP the new free foot to its LTE. At the same time as you TIP the new free foot, you pull this foot back AND conciously lift your heel up to keep the tip of the ski in contact with the snow.

At the point of balance transfer, you are stepping out slightly with the inside foot and transferring your weight directly onto the BTE of that ski. Once the ski begins to turn towards the fall line and you regain your balance, you are able to bring the free foot back towards the stance foot, but the tip is being raised as opposed to the tail. On this last point, it may be that your fore/aft balance needs addressing - i needed a 3mm heal raise.

As keen as you are advance your skiing, it is very important to practice and drill on green runs. Like tai chi, you need to make your movements very slow and deliberate. Speed and momentum can mask a myriad of techincal errors..start stationary and finish stationary. Then reset and repeat. If you can't balance, it will be a combination of alignment and lack of CB. Only skiing slowly will highlight and allow you to strengthen this.

In your case, i would work your way through the phantom/ super phantom series. The key is not to turn your new stance ski - just balance on the LTE for as long as possible. Let the TIPPING of the free foot and your free foot management control the turn..you want to see an O frame at the start of each turn..

Remember, practice makes PERMINANT. There is no point spending hours practicing the incorrect movements. Get some video up of you doing these drills
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby Kiwi » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:10 am

Zek I have added reasons for my earlier post. They are part of a PM I exchanged earlier.

"Generally, when I looked at Zek's skiing in the first short turn video, of his later post, he didn’t commit to the stance ski at all. At 28 sec (right turn) he initiates the phantom move but doesn't establish his weight on the stance ski after transition, his weight is inside and there is lots of inclination.

I think he is trying hard but it is all happening too fast for his level of skiing. He needs to slow it all down.

For his left turn there is a flex and phantom move but after releasing he again places all his weight on his new inside ski and when he releases again it is without actually flexing his stance ski at all. 30 sec mark. There is no phantom move to release. The release for this his second turn to the right creates a wedge entry as he does not get off the stance ski as per normal, because he had no weigh on it. The stance ski drifts away because he is not leading the transition with stance leg tipping (new inside foot) and no inside foot tipping. The edge change is actually achieved by inclination. He does manage to pull the new inside ski back but it is too late to save a wedge entry.

At 31 sec no counter balance and no counteracting in fact Zek is rotated slightly to the inside as well as inclined. Counteracting would definitely help but the basic limitation is the lack of commitment to weighting the stance ski and the extension and inclination into transitions.

My comment about the speed was from a concern that these turns are not very rounded as there is not enough time spent loading and bending the stance ski and limited tipping. I see a lot of these shallow turns down the fall line from people trying to learn movements and its is all too fast."

In summary, slow it down and break the moves down. More commitment to the stance ski and exaggerate flex to release, avoid all extension and inclination, most notable on right turns. Think about your CA aim your zipper at the lifted edge of the stance ski.

Hope it helps.
Last edited by Kiwi on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby Skizoo » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:24 pm

Image

I'll take a shot at a couple things I see in this frame..

1) Your feet are way too far ahead of your hips

2) You were starting a turn to the right in this image, you're wedging into the turn, your left ski should either be flat or still on the LTE (little toe edge) and your right ski should be tipping to the LTE, as you can see your right ski appears flat and your left ski has moved to the big toe edge.. you need to lead with the new freeski (uphill ski) in this frame it is your right ski, by tipping to the little toe edge, and the new stance ski (downhill ski) should follow.

In this image..

Image

You appear to be trying to work on the phantom move but your doing it backwards, you're lifting the front of the ski, the tail of the ski should be lifted. Harald has some great pics of this in his books

I think you may be trying to accomplish too much too quick. Results will come but you have to take it 1 step at a time.
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby Kiwi » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:12 pm

+1

Geofda's post for Tommi on 26 February explains the big toe dominance problem well when coupled with an extension and wide stance leading to a wedge
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby DougD » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:21 am

Kiwi wrote:This mod is not going to help and may well make it worse. The basics of alignment are set out in ACBAES 1.

+1

You've done just what I feared with that foam. As kiwi stated and I posted above, this is not how alignment issues are addressed. Those inserts won't fix your stance. They will impair your natural foot position and range of motion. That will inhibit your skiing progress and may cause or aggravate injuries.

Good job recognizing that you're knock-kneed. Now it's time to admit that you lack the knowledge and skills to modify your boots properly. Please seek help from a qualified (preferably PMTS) boot fitter and be prepared to pay for the work. The best boots and skis in the world are useless until this is addressed correctly.

As to your skiing, a highly knock-kneed stance makes learning PMTS movements very difficult. The advice to go back to ACBAES 1 is 100% correct, but correcting your stance issues is likely to be a prerequisite for making any real progress.
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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby sashalex » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:52 pm

zeK wanted me to post his latest MA video. He was practicing linked phantom turns

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Re: Movement Analysis for zeK

Postby zeK » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:36 pm

Finally was able to get proper video of me doing phantom turns on my New 2013 Head Magnums 170cm... Was working on adjusting the angle of the insoles of the boots to match the foam.. I think now it is finally somewhat fixed until I can get it done professionally at a harb center.

Been working on one footed balance, and I am finally able to release transfer engage as the requirement of the phantom.

Please confirm if I am doing a proper release without wedging.

And what should I work on next

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