MA for lorant

MA for lorant

Postby ml511ie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:12 am

Dear All,

My brother brought my attention on Harald and his PMTS method last year. It is obvious, the method is very effective. My skiing was a big to edge based one, thus with lots of moments in wedge position.
I tried to incorporate some of the technics, and I feel it is good, bet know it can be better:)
This is where i am now: http://youtu.be/WZ6C2AF-PeY

Please let me know what should I improve and how.

Thanks,
Lorant
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby JerryS » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:21 pm

Hi Lorant, welcome to PMTS. Having just spent a week at camp I'm going to see if I can apply what I learned after skiing with PMTS instructors for a week :) Then maybe some of the others will respond and we'll both learn from it.

I think you start off looking fairly balanced but as soon as your first pole plant both of your arms come back, and you might be getting in the back seat after that. This pattern continues for all of your pole plants, moving arms forward, planting, and both carrying back after the plant. At 0:16 it looks like this has put you firmly in the back seat, though it is a frontal view and hard to tell.

Right at 09 seconds it looks like you are extending into the transition and rushing into the next turn pushing your skis out, rather than waiting for the turn to come to you. This is the classic old/long ski turn, extend and pivot. In PMTS you want to develop flexing through the transition, which will help tremendously with avoiding the push and tendency to use the big toe. Two exercises that will help remove the extension are the boot touch drill where you touch both boots during the transition, and also the double pole drag . . . keeping both poles on the snow during the transition and the turns. Remove the pole plant for the time being as it triggers your up move, add it back in after you have learned to flex during the transition. Double pole drag will also help you keep your counter balance during the turns.

Right at about 0:17 you also push off from your old stance ski to start your turn and end up in a wedge on both edges. Again, the cure for this is to learn to flex the old stance foot to transfer the weight to the LTE, then start your tipping with the new free foot to move you into the next turn.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby Kiwi » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:03 am

I think there may be a reluctance to comment because the video moves around making it difficult to analyse, it is also short. The tipping appears digital, and the amount of tipping could increase. I'd also exaggerate the flexing to release a lot more. I thought the hands were okay for this stage, they do not appear to be blocking anything I can see.

It appears there are some good things happening just hard to confirm.

More video on a easier slope with more turns would make it easier to comment.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:38 pm

Hey lorant,
Thanks for posting the video. It's great that you are starting to incorporate PMTS into your skiing. Just a cautionary word. PMTS is a completely different method of skiing, both in theory and application. Its based on the ESSENTIALS, which although can be isolated, they are ALL required to provide the whole method. In a nut shell, it's awesome that you are trying to apply some PMTS movements into your skiing and can see some benefit. But in order to really take your skiing to the next level, you will have to go all the way back to the beginning......this is something that a lot of people are un-willing to do - not just in skiing...how quickly you progree will be determined by boot set up, dedication to practice, etc etc..are you willing to take this step? If so, stick around...you will be amazed what you will learn...

Back to the video. Have you ever had your boots aligned? Do you have footbeds? Your left boot looks a little too Big Toe Edge (BTE) heavy, consequently your ability to tip your left boot to its Little Toe Edge (LTE) in your left turn is compromised. One of the biggest hangovers that you will face learning PMTS is the eradicating of the Extension (pushing) of the legs at the end of the turn prior to the transition. You have this on both sides..This single movement kills tipping of the skis, which stops the ski TURNING at the top of the turn (HIGH C). As a result, foot steering/ pivotting of the ski is required in order to get it to change direction. This then leads to late and heavy edge setting AFTER the fall line followed by another extension as this is the only way to oppose the sudden increase in force...it's a continuous cycle...

However, you are trying to tip your free foot. You are trying to balance over your stance ski and you are showing a reasonable amount of Counter Balancing (CB) & Counter Acting (CA). Once you remove the extension from your skiing your transition will begin to develop which will lead to proper turn development..

The best advice that i can give you is to work your way through Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier 1. Some of the exercises will seem basic and easy to you...DO NOT skip these. It is very improtant that you follow the progression as written...your skiing will thank you for it....
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby ml511ie » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:39 am

JerryS wrote:Hi Lorant, welcome to PMTS. Having just spent a week at camp I'm going to see if I can apply what I learned after skiing with PMTS instructors for a week :) Then maybe some of the others will respond and we'll both learn from it.

I think you start off looking fairly balanced but as soon as your first pole plant both of your arms come back, and you might be getting in the back seat after that. This pattern continues for all of your pole plants, moving arms forward, planting, and both carrying back after the plant. At 0:16 it looks like this has put you firmly in the back seat, though it is a frontal view and hard to tell.

Right at 09 seconds it looks like you are extending into the transition and rushing into the next turn pushing your skis out, rather than waiting for the turn to come to you. This is the classic old/long ski turn, extend and pivot. In PMTS you want to develop flexing through the transition, which will help tremendously with avoiding the push and tendency to use the big toe. Two exercises that will help remove the extension are the boot touch drill where you touch both boots during the transition, and also the double pole drag . . . keeping both poles on the snow during the transition and the turns. Remove the pole plant for the time being as it triggers your up move, add it back in after you have learned to flex during the transition. Double pole drag will also help you keep your counter balance during the turns.

Right at about 0:17 you also push off from your old stance ski to start your turn and end up in a wedge on both edges. Again, the cure for this is to learn to flex the old stance foot to transfer the weight to the LTE, then start your tipping with the new free foot to move you into the next turn.


Hi Jerry, thanks for the comments. I think all your remarks are valid. In the past I was sitting on back, one of the reasons my upper arms were in the line of my chest, the right one got even more back on left turns. It seems this still have to be improved. Thanks for the drills. Next weekend I will do all these, and hopefully present a new and better quality video.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby ml511ie » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:42 am

Kiwi wrote:I think there may be a reluctance to comment because the video moves around making it difficult to analyse, it is also short. The tipping appears digital, and the amount of tipping could increase. I'd also exaggerate the flexing to release a lot more. I thought the hands were okay for this stage, they do not appear to be blocking anything I can see.

It appears there are some good things happening just hard to confirm.

More video on a easier slope with more turns would make it easier to comment.


Hi Kiwi,

Thanks. On that day, I also felt some good things happening. :) Next weekend I will go out to ski, and prepare new videos.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby ml511ie » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:56 am

go_large_or_go_home wrote:Hey lorant,
Thanks for posting the video. It's great that you are starting to incorporate PMTS into your skiing. Just a cautionary word. PMTS is a completely different method of skiing, both in theory and application. Its based on the ESSENTIALS, which although can be isolated, they are ALL required to provide the whole method. In a nut shell, it's awesome that you are trying to apply some PMTS movements into your skiing and can see some benefit. But in order to really take your skiing to the next level, you will have to go all the way back to the beginning......this is something that a lot of people are un-willing to do - not just in skiing...how quickly you progree will be determined by boot set up, dedication to practice, etc etc..are you willing to take this step? If so, stick around...you will be amazed what you will learn...

Back to the video. Have you ever had your boots aligned? Do you have footbeds? Your left boot looks a little too Big Toe Edge (BTE) heavy, consequently your ability to tip your left boot to its Little Toe Edge (LTE) in your left turn is compromised. One of the biggest hangovers that you will face learning PMTS is the eradicating of the Extension (pushing) of the legs at the end of the turn prior to the transition. You have this on both sides..This single movement kills tipping of the skis, which stops the ski TURNING at the top of the turn (HIGH C). As a result, foot steering/ pivotting of the ski is required in order to get it to change direction. This then leads to late and heavy edge setting AFTER the fall line followed by another extension as this is the only way to oppose the sudden increase in force...it's a continuous cycle...

However, you are trying to tip your free foot. You are trying to balance over your stance ski and you are showing a reasonable amount of Counter Balancing (CB) & Counter Acting (CA). Once you remove the extension from your skiing your transition will begin to develop which will lead to proper turn development..

The best advice that i can give you is to work your way through Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier 1. Some of the exercises will seem basic and easy to you...DO NOT skip these. It is very improtant that you follow the progression as written...your skiing will thank you for it....


Hi go_large_or_go_home,

Thanks for the comments.
I removed last year the original footbed, and have this one:
http://backcountryskiingcanada.com/inde ... %20Insoles
The difference is significant. My boot is a head raptor 115. it is comfortable if I stay with shins resting on the tongue of the inner shoe. As my legs get straight, it pushes my outer ancle. It signals me whenever I am not in proper position.
this tends to happen quite seldom recently :).
How about the boot canting adjustment? Should I touch it?

Yes I am aware of the harmfulness of pushing the BTE just before starting the next turn. Instead of pushing it the release of it is needed and during that the balance migrates to the other ski LTE. I have already this in my mind. I still have to program my body :).
In the video some of the turns were initiated with BTE, when I wanted to make the turn quicker, to avoid a bump or the cameraman. I suppose when you want to break the rhythm and want to make a quicker turn, that with more tipping and flexing is possible, right?
But some of my turns were without blocking BTE, when migrating the balance to upper ski LTE, I was extending the more bent upper leg, instead of shortening the more extended stance leg by flexing it.
Next long weekend I will go trough the proposed drills, and present a new video with improvements, hopefully :)
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby DougD » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:44 am

ml511ie wrote: Thanks. On that day, I also felt some good things happening. :) Next weekend I will go out to ski, and prepare new videos.

Another word of caution... skiing well requires movements that are NOT natural and do not feel natural until after you've mastered them. When a learning skier does something that "feels good", it's usually wrong. Relying on movements that feel good may train your body to make incorrect movements.

It's similar to golf. To a learning golfer, a good swing feels odd and unnatural. That's because a good golf swing IS unnatural. Golfers who rely on feeling good to learn and practice their swing don't become good golfers. Good golf and PMTS skiing both require verification of movements by direct observation or video. Try to ignore those feel good sensations, as they may lead you in wrong directions.

ml511ie wrote: My boot is a head raptor 115. it is comfortable if I stay with shins resting on the tongue of the inner shoe. As my legs get straight, it pushes my outer ancle. It signals me whenever I am not in proper position.

PMTS teaches us to ski balanced over the center of our feet, not leaning forward against our boot tongues. If standing in your boots with your shins centered in the cuffs, pressing neither forward nor back, causes ankle pain, then you need a good boot fitter.

ml511ie wrote:How about the boot canting adjustment? Should I touch it?

Your boots don't have a canting adjustment (no matter what the literature says). They have a cuff angle adjustment. Its purpose is to match the boot cuff sides to the shape and angle of your lower legs. Canting is something altogether different.

Your bootfitter/footbed maker should have adjusted the boot cuff angles. If he didn't, you could give it a try. You'll need a friend to help.
    1. Put your boots on and buckle them a notch looser than normal. Have your friend loosen (but not remove) the four cuff adjustment screws.
    2. Stand on a flat surface with your feet parallel and at normal skiing width. Standing on your skis will help assure a correct (normal skiing) position.
    3. Flex the boots straight forward and back several times. Avoid pressuring the cuffs laterally. The cuffs should adjust roughly to the shape/angle of your shins.
    3. Now stand still and centered, no pressure on the cuffs. Have your friend snug up the cuff buckles to their normal setting. Repeat the fore/aft flexing a few times. Again, avoid any lateral pressure.
    4. Stand still and centered again, no pressure on the cuffs. Have your friend tighten all four cuff adjustment screws. That's it.
A good fitter might do a little more, but doing the above would be better than doing nothing.

P.S. "Canting" is done by placing wedges beneath the boot soles and/or grinding the boot soles. It's a vital step to address alignment issues and many skiers are unable to make real progress until it's done. But it has nothing to do with the cuff angle adjustments and it requires a trained professional.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby ml511ie » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:37 pm

Hi DougD,

Thanks. I will check this cuff angle adjustment soon. What is effect if the cuff angle is not properly adjusted?
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby ml511ie » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:16 pm

ml511ie wrote:But some of my turns were without blocking BTE, when migrating the balance to upper ski LTE, I was extending the more bent upper leg, instead of shortening the more extended stance leg by flexing it.


Please check In Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier 2 video at 1:50. When the stance ski is released, the extension of the old free leg can be observed. Could you comment this, please.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby Max_501 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:27 pm

ml511ie wrote:Please check In Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier 2 video at 1:50. When the stance ski is released, the extension of the old free leg can be observed. Could you comment this, please.


I don't see the extension but the flex of the outside leg is there.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby ml511ie » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:51 am

Max_501 wrote:
I don't see the extension but the flex of the outside leg is there.


Then, please check this edit:
http://youtu.be/PzRLNqt03NE

The extension of the other inside leg is also there.
Definitely, there is no extension of the outside leg, that would break the fluidity of the movement with the blocking BTE pressed into the snow.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby DougD » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:06 am

ml511ie wrote:Hi DougD,

Thanks. I will check this cuff angle adjustment soon. What is effect if the cuff angle is not properly adjusted?


It depends on how the cuff is mis-adjusted. If the cuff doesn't match the shape/size of your shin:
- it may interfere with the natural stance and/or range of motion of your ankles and feet
- it may prevent efficient transfer of foot/leg movements to the ski
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby Max_501 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:12 am

ml511ie wrote:The extension of the other inside leg is also there.


See this post from Harald -

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=908#p9125

Harald wrote:I do not understand this preoccupation with seeing rising in transition. I don't use extension to release in any of my turns. I don't teach extending (nor do we in PMTS) for any turns, yet there seems to be hysteria about HH rising.

The intent of what you are doing is the important part of how movements take effect. If you, as I explained in anther post, flex or bend by 1mm you are on the right track, if you extend by 1mm you are on the wrong track if you are a habitual push off skier.

Regardless of what you see, skiers who bend to release may show the body moving toward the new turn with what looks like rising to the untrained eye. I have explained this before. If you take a ski pole and tilt it up hill, leave the tip of the pole in the same place in the snow, then bring the handle straight down through and to the falline until the ski pole is tilted downhill, did the ski pole extend or did it stay the same length? Of course it stayed the same length. Does it look like it extended at the point when it was perpendicular to the falling, of course it did. Many PSIA trained skiers or instructors can't differentiate between a push-off and a flexing transition!!!

The ski pole did not make an extension move. When I ski at low amplitude, like I often do in my videos, I demonstrate movements of flexing and retracting of the old stance leg and foot for a PM and I continue to flex it during transition.

If the inside leg is not flexed or angled to any great degree, due to speed and slope, especially at slow speed, (when it is not necessary) the transition might look like the CG goes up, (as the leg stays close to the same length especially if you only flex by 1mm, but it isn't being pushed up (same as the ski pole). This is a strong distinction to be understood.

If you want to see up movements that are incorrect watch the Sogard and Weems video. They both use an up and an extension, this is very different form how I ski and how we teach in PMTS. If you watch the bump skiing sections of my videos where I am skiing naturally at my normal speed you will see definite retraction.

This is why I don't agree with instructors who say, ?Good skiing is good skiing?. That demonstrates poor MA capability. There maybe a category of skiing called good for ?PSIA Skiing? but don?t confuse that with ?Good PMTS? skiing, they are different.

When I teach the Super Phantom, I make sure the inside leg stays flexed at the end of the turn (when balance is transferred to it) and that is stays flexed through the transition. Because the inside leg has to hold and stabilize the upper body over the boot or foot and the core has to stabilize the body from rotating and leaning, some transitions look like the CG moves over to the little toe edge. This is correct and OK for learning little toe edge balance.

Once more hill dynamics are added to the Super Phantom turn, the time spent where the CG is over the little toe edge is miniscule, so the CG no longer looks like it moves up to the little toe edge. There is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching that the CG moves over to the little toe edge for the Super Phantom, this is an exercise for skiers who do not know how to exit a turn without stemming. The Super Phantom is the wedge blocker. It is an exercise, not a technique or a movement. I find that instructors confuse movements with exercises and exercises with technique and technique with movements.

You can incorporate the S-Phantom into your skiing and make it completely fluid.
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Re: MA for lorant

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:20 am

Max_501 wrote:See this post from Harald -

http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic ... =908#p9125


You beat me to it...just spent the last 2hrs trying to find that exact post...i knew it was there somewhere, just couldn't locate it...
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