MA request for zd

MA request for zd

Postby zd500 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:13 pm

This is my first post here. I have been learning PMTS for a season and a half from books and DVDs. I also attended Jay's ski camp last June at Mt Hood. Here are my two recent ski videos. I was on a 170 Head x-shape ski. (There was an alignment issue with my left boot which needed to be tipped out by approximately 2 degree but was not addressed.)




The two major problems I see from the videos, at least on some of the turns:
1. there is an extension during or right after turn transition.
2. Not enough free foot tipping at the end of a turn so that the old free ski gets flattened too early.

Of course there are lots of things I can improve, but these two are the biggest ones. Is my self analysis accurate? And what is the SMIM for me to work on right now?

Thank you very much for your response and analysis.
Last edited by zd500 on Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:34 am

Zd,
Welcome....do you have easy access to a HSS boot fitter? Your mis-alignment is somewhat preventing you from making 'essential' movement patterns and forcing you to make adaptive ones.

For example, i see very little/ no inside foot tipping - either at the start/ middle or end of the turn. Free foot tipping to the LTE is almost impossible if your boot is biasing your alignment inwards - left boot is definately worse. The result in your skiing is an extension to initiate the left turn - left boot BTE strong, so you are forced to extend in an effort to flatten the ski. It would also explain why you feel like the free foot ski flattens at the start of the the transition..Good news is that you definately flex to initiate your right turn.

Also, you need to try and 'glue' the inside edge of the free foot ski - the area under the arch of your foot, to the stance leg boot inside ankle rivet...again, difficult if your boots are not in alignment as you will be constantly fighting for balance...revisit the Super Phantom....this movement will get you balancing on your stance foot with correct CA & CB & tipping the free foot whilst pulling the free foot back..

It looks like you are a little in the back seat...this could be a function of not pulling the free foot back under you or your binding/ boot set up needs addressing. You might need a heel lift..i needed 3mm to balance my fore/ aft..
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby zd500 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:12 pm

Thanks GLOGH. Really appreciate your feedback. Yes I will ask Jay to get my foots fit next time I go to Mt Hood.

I have a question about your suggestion on trying to 'glue' the inside edge of the free ski to stance boot. I practiced it quite a lot last season and could do it easily. I think the reason for this drill is to build a solid balance on the (BTE of) stance ski. I think I have it now. (Do I? Is my self assessment right?) Is it still necessary for me to 'glue' two skis together during free skiing?
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:51 pm

zd500 wrote:Is it still necessary for me to 'glue' two skis together during free skiing?


Read this:
http://harbskisysems.blogspot.co.uk

And watch this:

http://skiersynergy.com/index.php/video ... ory_id=104

Although the Super Phantom is a drill, it designed to cement the correct movement patterns for the Phantom Move, which needs to be a fundamental part of your skiing. If you can't ski on one foot then you aren't in balanace and your body will not, 'naturally' provide the correct amount of CB & CA. The idea of 'squeezing' the arch of free foot against the inside ankle of your stance foot will give you the correct amount of balance, CB & CA AND it aids free foot tipping...infact it initiates it....BONUS...

To understand how hard you need to press the inside edge of your free ski to the inside stance boot rivet, see ACBAES 2 where Diana is trying to push Hh boots apart with a ski pole. The effort required to sqeeze is substantial and uses your adductor muscles. Pilates will help as this tends to be a commonly under-developed muscle group. Try holding a Nerf ball between your ankles when you do 1 & 2 footed releases - again in ACBAES2...

Your feet need to be closer together than you think & we All need tip more than we currently are....once you get balanced on one foot, the kenetic chain does the rest - then all you do is balance and let the ski do the rest..
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby Ken » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:15 pm

2nd video, :17 seconds. See how your center of mass is over your heels. Pull your feet back so your center of mass is over your toes. You'll feel like you're falling forward down the mountain. You aren't. Getting a proper stance opens up the movements so they work so much better. When you feel like you're way too far forward is probably about correctly centered.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby Max_501 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:45 pm

Ken wrote:You'll feel like you're falling forward down the mountain. You aren't.


We don't use feelings as a cue with PMTS because they are unreliable and everyone is different. For example, I never feel like I'm falling down the mountain.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby cheesehead » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:59 am

Max_501 wrote:
Ken wrote:You'll feel like you're falling forward down the mountain. You aren't.


We don't use feelings as a cue with PMTS because they are unreliable and everyone is different. For example, I never feel like I'm falling down the mountain.


Perhaps better would be to say, "You MAY feel ..." It seems like Ken is specifically telling him NOT to use the feeling as a cue but to rely solely on getting proper fore/aft balance by pulling his feet back.

YOU might never sense that falling forward sensation, but I think many do (including me). It takes some effort to overcome that and push forward (and pull back!)
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby Max_501 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:23 am

cheesehead wrote:YOU might never sense that falling forward sensation, but I think many do (including me). It takes some effort to overcome that and push forward (and pull back!)


Then you may be doing something incorrectly because if you are in balance (CB, CA, fore/aft) you should feel in balance rather than feeling like you are falling.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby HeluvaSkier » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:32 pm

Max_501 wrote:
cheesehead wrote:YOU might never sense that falling forward sensation, but I think many do (including me). It takes some effort to overcome that and push forward (and pull back!)


Then you may be doing something incorrectly because if you are in balance (CB, CA, fore/aft) you should feel in balance rather than feeling like you are falling.


Max has it right here.

First, those learning PMTS it unwise to rely on what you feel. Further, the feeling of falling is not a sensation that anyone should be getting when they ski. As Max stated you should feel in balance and locked into the turn. Pull back. CA. CB. Repeat.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby geoffda » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:03 pm

You can't learn a movement by chasing someone else's idea of what the movement may or may not feel like. You learn a movement through "perfect" practice, which requires some means of verification such as feedback from a coach, a good external cue, or both. The goal, as you begin to master the movement, is to develop internal cues to help you recognize when you are doing things correctly and when you are not. These cues are your own and should not be shared, as they often lead to misunderstanding and confusion. If we want to help other skiers, the best thing we can do is give them instructions whereby the success criteria is as objective as possible.

Personally, I'm with Max_501. The idea of falling down the mountain is totally foreign to me. We strive to be in balance at all times and telling somebody that they may feel like they are falling down the mountain is contrary to everything we teach. That doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is wrong if they have that feeling (whatever it actually is) while performing correct movements , but it is a good example as to why trying to equate movements to feelings typically doesn't work well. This does NOT need to turn into a 15 page discussion while people try (and fail) to reach some agreement on what it means to feel like we are falling down the mountain.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby zd500 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:23 am

Thanks Ken for your feedback.

Yes, fore-aft balance is also something I really need to work on. In fact, before going to Jay's camp, I thought fore-aft balance was my biggest problem, but Jay said my extension at transition was a bigger issue. So flexing has been my main focus so far this season.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby Matt » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:16 am

Don't you guys contradict yourselves when you first say that you should not rely on feelings and then that you should feel in balance?
I don't always feel in balance when I am working on new movement patterns.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby blackthorn » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:48 am

I don't think there is a contradiction.

Max says "I don't always feel in balance when I am working on new movement patterns." - sure, and external verification would probably show why, at that particular stage. And even if skiing while feeling in balance, movements may still be wrong.

The emphasis is about the development of internal cues, in association with external verification.

I think that geoffda outlines the issue of internal feelings ( subjective) vs external verification (objective) very well. Both are essential.
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby Max_501 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:10 pm

Matt wrote:I don't always feel in balance when I am working on new movement patterns.


That would be normal, in fact new movements usually feel awkward and wrong, even when you are doing them correctly.

But the earlier suggestion was that pulling the feet back results in a feeling of falling forward down the mountain. I'm saying it shouldn't and if it does I'd sure like to see video so we can see why you are getting that feeling.

Consider this...what direction are your skis facing when you pull them back?
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Re: MA request for zd

Postby jbotti » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:14 pm

There are two things that Harald has stressed. First is specificity of movement. The second is specificity in communication. Harald chooses words specifically because different words have different impacts on the way a student learns. There is a reason why Harald never talks about having the experience of falling down the hill. The reason is that this mental image doesn't contribute to PMTS students learning proper movements and it does contribute to them doing improper movements. It's a phrase that ski instructors have been using for years and we know the sorry state that ski instruction away from PMTS remains in.

So its very simple, if you want to advance think about your skiing using the terms that Harald has chosen and you have a much better chance of producing specific PMTS movements correctly. And again, how do we know we are doing movements correctly? We either see it ourselves on video or a trained PMTS coach tells us we are doing it correctly (usually followed by them showing us video of when we did it correctly or incorrectly).
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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