MA request for ChrisC

MA request for ChrisC

Postby ChrisC » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:55 pm

I'm going to the Green/Blue camp in February, but I'd like to get some things corrected before the camp.

The videos are from an indoor ski deck in Sydney. I won't be on snow until the camp, so I am somewhat restricted in how I can practice. I'd particularly like to hear from people who use ski decks because they are a bit different from skiing on snow.

I know I have a problem releasing properly from the stance ski and I have a stem when I enter the turn.

I worked through most of the exercises in Expert Skier I last ski season (July-Oct), but I'm having trouble making further progress on the ski deck.






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Re: MA request for ChrisC

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:39 am

Hey Chris...happy new year..

It's good to know that A: you have an upcoming camp & B: are keen to do some pre-camp training. But I have to say, that training as you are on the ski deck is only going to damage your progress on the camp. Unfortunately, non of your movements as shown in the video have anything to do with PMTS. Unless you absolutely go back to basics, skiing like this is only reinforcing the wrong movement patterns...

Here is a video clip of how you should approach your training on this device:

https://skiersynergy.com/index.php/medi ... g-ski-deck

I have skied on a similar system in the UK and I found it very difficult to practice on. Partly due to the commercial nature of the operation - you can't just spend 60 mins on your own practicing one drill as you can on a slope, and also the fact that combination of being enclosed in a room with vertical lines played havoc with my balance....

Personally, I would spend ALL your time on a slant board. It's amazing!!! AND is a far better way to prepare yourself for skiing. Unfortunately, as keen as you are to get ready for camp, you will be kicking yourself for continuing down this avenue...

Sorry...
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Re: MA request for ChrisC

Postby Erik » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:01 pm

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Re: MA request for ChrisC

Postby ChrisC » Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:30 pm

Thanks Guys. I've also had some PMs with suggestions. I'll definitely get a slant board and try the exercises.

But I would like to learn how to better utilize the ski deck, either before or after the camp in Feb.

I found another video on the Portes Du Ski website about PMTS on their ski deck, which I've posted below. They seem to run the ski deck very slowly for their lessons. There are also examples in the previous video of them using it like a rope tow: you ski down doing practice turns and then the ski deck takes you back to the top. I can try both of these approaches when it's not too busy and I'm skiing on my own (like in the videos), but the second approach is an expensive way to get a rope tow.

For those who haven't used ski decks, the physics of skiing on them are essentially the same as skiing on snow. The surface is not exactly like snow, but it's close enough for practice purposes. Everything else is identical.

What is different is that you lose some visual cues compared to skiing on snow. On the ski deck I'm using there's a mirror at the front of the deck and you use your reflection to make sure you don't ski off the end of the deck. If you're going slowly (say at the end of the turn) you will be moving up the deck and if you're going quickly (say at the apex of the turn) you will be moving down the deck.

Without going in to a lot of details, the end result is that it's hard to determine the angle of the skis compared to the deck and it's easy to catch the leading edge and trip over.

This problem seems to be worse for the TTS approach where you weight both skis and try to do simultaneous edge changes. The PMTS approach of flexing and then lifting the old stance ski should work much better.

That's the theory, but the practice is proving more difficult and obviously I need to work on it a lot more.

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Re: MA request for ChrisC

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:08 pm

If you haven't discovered the slant board and you are still keen to persue your current training plan. STOP...Stop wasting your time and your money...it has been said time and again - you have to rewind and go back to the beginning. The BIGGEST mistake that we all make is thinking that A: we can ski & B: the progression as prescribed in the books doesn't apply...WRONG,!!

The fact is, that the longer we have skied without PMTS, the longer we have to spend undoing our movement patterns. The ski deck is not going to help you in any way at your stage of development, and the sooner you can realise this the better. We have all been there. Practice makes perminant, and all you are doing is making the opposite movement patterns more ingrained....

Practice on the slant board. Until you can single leg balance on the LTE, stay away from the ski deck...until you can flex to release from from leaning against a wall, stay away from the ski deck.....the ski deck is undoing everything, regardless of how highly you rate it or your current skill set...otherwise, you will find your forthcoming camp very frustrating.

The hardest part is letting go and being willing to go back to the beginning. Once you embrace this, then you will see the real progress..
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Re: MA request for ChrisC

Postby ChrisC » Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:52 pm

Relax - the ski deck is closed for their Christmas/New Year break. :D

I bought a rubber ramp for wheelchair access that should work ok as a slant board. Will see how I go.
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Re: MA request for ChrisC

Postby Max_501 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:38 am

go_large_or_go_home wrote:If you haven't discovered the slant board and you are still keen to persue your current training plan. STOP...Stop wasting your time and your money...it has been said time and again - you have to rewind and go back to the beginning. The BIGGEST mistake that we all make is thinking that A: we can ski & B: the progression as prescribed in the books doesn't apply...WRONG,!!

The fact is, that the longer we have skied without PMTS, the longer we have to spend undoing our movement patterns. The ski deck is not going to help you in any way at your stage of development, and the sooner you can realise this the better. We have all been there. Practice makes perminant, and all you are doing is making the opposite movement patterns more ingrained....

Practice on the slant board. Until you can single leg balance on the LTE, stay away from the ski deck...until you can flex to release from from leaning against a wall, stay away from the ski deck.....the ski deck is undoing everything, regardless of how highly you rate it or your current skill set...otherwise, you will find your forthcoming camp very frustrating.

The hardest part is letting go and being willing to go back to the beginning. Once you embrace this, then you will see the real progress..


Great info above.
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Re: MA request for ChrisC

Postby JohnMoore » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:16 am

go_large_or_go_home wrote:I have skied on a similar system in the UK and I found it very difficult to practice on. Partly due to the commercial nature of the operation - you can't just spend 60 mins on your own practicing one drill as you can on a slope, and also the fact that combination of being enclosed in a room with vertical lines played havoc with my balance....


I had 40 minutes or so on the ski deck at Portes du Ski with Guus a couple of months ago (while getting my footbeds sorted) and I have to say I found it an extraordinarily disorientating experience, I just couldn't ski properly on it at all. Seeing how Guus skis on it, though, shows it can be done. I guess you just have to spend a decent amount of time getting over the whole strangeness of the experience. Mind you, I'm a keen runner but I can't get on with treadmills either.
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Re: MA request for ChrisC

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:47 am

I have watched countless clips of skiers on a ski deck, and the ALL have a wedge entry to their turns.... Even the guys at Portes du Ski incl the great Jay himself...I am not convinced about its value further than learning the phantom move from stationary - which is hugely valuable in its own right, but that's as far as I would take it...

I can appreciated that as far as the ski mechanics are concerned, there is no difference between ski deck and snow. But the combination of the fact that your body is not creating any inertia because 'it's' not moving relative to the surface and the optical illusions about being inside a box make for a very different experience....i had about 7 sessions before going back to a Dry slope...even then, I had to unlearn all my bad movement patterns learnt from the ski deck....

If all I had was ski deck or nothing, nothing wins... Plenty of dry land drills and other 'balance' orientated activities like 'slack-lining' are far more beneficial....

Practice makes permanent....and this is a very intense form of practice...
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