OK boys... rip me a new one...

OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:00 pm

Here's the gory details, on benign terrain. Please MA.





Thank you!
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby MonsterMan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:56 pm

What were you focusing on for those runs BigE?
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:58 pm

On the run from the rear, I was thinking about keeping the jacket zipper upright and staying forward.

On the second, I was thinking about not rising in transition, and starting the turn with tipping.
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby NoCleverName » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:01 pm

I will offer just one thing since I wouldn't dare actually analyze anything. At the camps some of the coaches emphasized starting your run in a flexed, "in-transition" position. Then the first turn happens more in rhythm. I have found that to be very good advice.

P.S. I just tried washing the vid thru stabilizing software but it couldn't keep everything important in the frame.
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby MonsterMan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:10 pm

On the run from the rear, I was thinking about keeping the jacket zipper upright and staying forward.



I see that the counter balance was working ok (jacket zipper cue), but that the for/aft could do with some more input. Your free foot tipping move has a funky twisty move rather than just hinging the BTE up from the snow about the LTE axis. (edit see the skis diverge on each turn? ).This blocks a free ski pullback move which stops you staying forward. This is my SMIM advice. Fix by stationary target tipping and a phantom turn series, (stationary, garlands, single full turns each way, linked turns).
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby MonsterMan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:17 pm

On the second, I was thinking about not rising in transition, and starting the turn with tipping.


I think you achieved this goal reasonably well.

In these turns, what proportion of the load do you think is on your inside ski?
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:51 pm

I'd think no more than 20%, depending on which turn, but to be honest, I cannot remember. I thought some were near zero, but then that may have been another video. (I'm not watching it as I type this).

These were selected as the best that were shot. Others were too far away, too unstable. The camera was an iFlipvideo, with very limited zoom capacity.
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:58 pm

Noclevername,

thanks for the tip. It makes very good sense, as being tall is hard to tip.
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:02 pm

MonsterMan wrote:
On the run from the rear, I was thinking about keeping the jacket zipper upright and staying forward.



I see that the counter balance was working ok (jacket zipper cue), but that the for/aft could do with some more input. Your free foot tipping move has a funky twisty move rather than just hinging the BTE up from the snow about the LTE axis. (edit see the skis diverge on each turn? ).This blocks a free ski pullback move which stops you staying forward. This is my SMIM advice. Fix by stationary target tipping and a phantom turn series, (stationary, garlands, single full turns each way, linked turns).


I can see the divergence clearly now. It's a remnant of having "turn your feet" yelled at me while skiing during instructor level 1 training. Yiikes! Thanks very much! It definitely stops the ski pullback. Pull-back is something I have been struggling with.
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:15 pm

re: feet diverging.... could that also be a naturally duck footed stance? I did use Fischer boots for a couple years, which I actually liked, until they packed out too fast twice.
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby MonsterMan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:22 pm

I'd think no more than 20%, depending on which turn, but to be honest, I cannot remember.


ok, I'd have guessed more but you were there, I wasn't.

have you tried a narrower stance? Look at your transition in video 2 skiing directly at the camera.

If you narrow your stance, you may find your LTE of the new stance ski without requiring a huge/gross initial counter balance move, (edit which you may not be achieving anyway). You will then be able to balance on the new stance ski, (LTE first). This would lead to more load on this new stance ski / less on the free ski. When you ingrain the lighten,TIP and pullback movement, I think you will find balance on the outside ski and this ski will do the turning for you.

SMIM lighten, tip and pullback of new free ski using a narrower stance.

Practice stationary. Look down and watch the ski tips. Learn how much you need to flex the inside leg to tip and pull back. I've watched Harald do this, the knee moves inside the turn as a result of the flex and tip and pullback of the foot.
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby MonsterMan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:35 pm

a)
re: feet diverging.... could that also be a naturally duck footed stance? I did use Fischer boots for a couple years, which I actually liked, until they packed out too fast twice.




b) Could it also be the inside ski is loaded and turning while the stance ski is not loaded and not tipping as much?

c) Could it be free foot "turning"

a) I don't know. Get alignment checked propery (read Harb trained).
b) and or c) narrow stance and learn the SMIM
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:49 pm

BigE,

Good on you for finally stepping up to post video. It takes a lot of balls to finally put your skiing out there for critique, which demands some respect - more than I can give to most of the know-it-alls who post on other forums. I feel a bit compelled to respond to you here because I've been one who has been pushing you to post video. So, I won't "rip you a new one"; I will not blow sunshine up your ass; I will try to help your skiing, your understanding, and your perspective.

So... the video. This is not good skiing. It is not PMTS. You need a heavy dose of all of the Essentials, starting with narrowing your stance, establishing stance ski balance, and tipping your feet. So let's get to the basics.

Does the release start by flexing the outside leg? NO
Does LTE tipping lead engagement to the new turn? NO, there is the appearance of LTE tipping efforts but edge angles are created by leaning/hip dumping and there is no stance ski balance
Are the feet pulled back at transition? NO
Is the inside foot held back throughout the turn? NO
Is there enough CB and CA and is the timing right? NO
Strong inside arm? NO
Is the pelvis included in the CB/CA movement? NO
Is the inside leg flexed as the turn progresses? NO
Does the outside leg extend naturally (no pushing) as the turn progresses? NO, extension is forced
Does LTE tipping continue throughout the turn? NO, tipping stops immediately
Is there a pole touch and how is the movement and timing? YES, but is meaningless at this point; arm movement is too much
Alignment - watch the skis and knees carefully - does anything look like it needs go be tipped in or out? YES. I'm not an alignment expert (will defer to others much more knowledgeable than I, but overall the setup looks way too strong, like you need to come in...

I'm not a PMTS coach (although I use PMTS drills and target PMTS movements when coaching). I have learned PMTS through extensive reading, this forum, seeking Harald's advice, and utilizing hours upon hours of comparing my video to video of others - including HH and other WC athletes. I've done it the hard way... 6+ years. Now, you have the same opportunity - to receive the best coaching accessible to every-day skiers. Don't waste it.

To quote my favorite TV character.
Sheldon Cooper wrote:Let’s begin with the premise that everything you’ve done up to this point is wrong.


Forget what you were thinking in these runs. Forget that you're an engineer. Forget anything you think you know about skiing. Forget the sensations you get while skiing. Forget anything you've been told by CSCF or CSIA, and forget that you ever tried to interpret PMTS based on what those train-wreck organizations were teaching you and your daughter. Remember the drill in the Essentials video where HH tipped his feet and used a wall to support himself? Do it - only your hip/pelvis touches the wall. Only your feet tip to get you there... the pelvis/hip touch first... shoulder never touches. Once there, pick up your free foot as you would in a phantom move. Set the free foot down lightly and begin to flex the weighted stance leg. Come to neutral by flexing the stance leg, standing 30cm+ away from the wall. Got it? This is the ONLY thing you need to do in your skiing for the foreseeable future. If you're on beginner terrain (or any for that matter) and you need to perform a movement outside of this set of movements, you're probably doing it wrong.

Now. Start with the BEGINNER PMTS progression - you know; the one without skis on where you lead your tipping movements with the LTE? Do it step-by-step. Do the brushed carve drills that focus on BTE balance and LTE tipping. Boots touching. You're not too big to have your boots touch. Get over your size, it doesn't make you unique or special. Do tipping garlands. Release/engage; Repeat. Once you have that down and verified with video, release/transfer/engage; Repeat. Do the sponge between your legs drill; release/transfer/engage. In fact, ski a morning with a sponge between your legs. Take video. Do phantom drags; I think there is a version of this that 'taps' the free foot through the turn... do that one too. Eliminate standing on two feet from your skiing. Getting off the lift, standing in lift lines, traversing, cat tracks; NEVER stand on two feet. One foot, or the other foot. Get off the lift and need to go right? Balance on the left BTE and tip the right foot to the LTE... no twisting, brush your way off the lift. Stopping? Do the same. You literally need to eliminate everything you are currently doing on skis and consciously replace it with something else. That something else is PMTS; proper skiing.

If you can't get a pair of Harb Carvers, get on ice skates in the off season - you're Canadian, if you can't find a hockey rink you have a serious problem. Teach yourself to skate [ski] with your ankles. Do the tipping drills on ice - using your ankles only. Skate [ski] on one foot on the ice just by rolling your ankle... "carve" turns. Learn to aggressively and passively hockey stop on your BTE and your LTE - on hockey skates - abrupt stops and long slides should be in your repertoire. Never stand on two feet (sensing a theme?). This is how you re-program your brain. Once you do the above, you will have a new understanding and appreciation for the Essentials... and then can actually start to learn to ski using all of the Essentials.

Lastly, get your ass down to Holimont to ski with me. Seriously, what are you waiting for? You and your daughter aren't winning any races anytime soon. You can both afford to miss a weekend or two at Collingwood. You know what they say about repeating the same action over and over while expecting different results... Insanity. How's it been working out for you? I'm not going to coach you, but I will show you how I ski, how I got there, and what I do to maintain it. It will [hopefully] change your perspective on skiing. Stop talking about PMTS and actually learn it. You don't actually write better than you ski... they are about equal, so stop wasting your time writing.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby HighAngles » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:59 pm

I have to say that I honestly didn't think it would happen, but I have to applaud your willingness to post video given a ton of scrutiny from many watchful eyes.

If you're learning PMTS via "osmosis" on this forum then I think you're not doing too bad a job of it - clearly you're trying. There are a lot of things that could be wrong with your skiing that aren't present - that alone says a lot. I don't have time at the moment to fully review the videos, but I will hopefully get an opportunity soon. Thanks for posting and now when someone says "got video?" you can say "well yes I do!" :mrgreen:
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Re: OK boys... rip me a new one...

Postby cheesehead » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:49 pm

Nobody asked me, but I thought I would just reinforce MM's SMIM advice. The inside ski gets more and more forward with each turn. Keeping that ski tip back and even with the other ski is one of the movement cues that you can do accurately without video. If you keep that inside foot back, ankle flexed, then your tipping will work right. It looks to my highly UN-trained eye like your inside knee is tipping correctly and would IF the foot were pulled back (and ski tips even).

My only point is keeping the ski tips even is something you can see and correct WHILE you are skiing.
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