MA request for not me

MA request for not me

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:54 pm

This is not me. This girl is 16. She'd like an MA please. Alignment done, coach says it's OK.



A second one is coming from a more normal perspective..
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:10 pm

The other view....



Thank you!

I neglected to mention that the temps at the hill have been above freezing 15 celsius, 12 celsius, 8 celsius during the day and not freezing at night, for three solid days. Wednesday ought to be frozen hardpack.
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:00 pm

I'm going to make this brief as most of what I put in your thread applies here...

Your daughter is the classic untrained club racer. No one ever taught her to ski, so she learned to ski by copying what she thought she was seeing in other [good] athletes. She may have also copied you... Either way, it isn't working.

Does the release start by flexing the outside leg? NO
Does LTE tipping lead engagement to the new turn? NO, edge angles are created by leaning/hip dumping and there is no stance ski balance
Are the feet pulled back at transition? NO
Is the inside foot held back throughout the turn? NO
Is there enough CB and CA and is the timing right? NO
Strong inside arm? NO
Is the pelvis included in the CB/CA movement? NO
Is the inside leg flexed as the turn progresses? NO
Does the outside leg extend naturally (no pushing) as the turn progresses? NO, there is no flexing or extending of the stance leg
Does LTE tipping continue throughout the turn? NO, there is no LTE tipping
Is there a pole touch and how is the movement and timing? NO, poles look too long
Alignment - watch the skis and knees carefully - does anything look like it needs go be tipped in or out? YES. Right foot is too strong, or left is too soft... alignment experts?

If she's serious about learning to ski, get her on a similar program that I outlined for you. She won't have success until she learns to ski with her feet.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

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Re: MA request for not me

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:10 pm

Thanks again Helluva.

I wonder how she'll react to this review? Her low level drills with that show foot tipping look pretty good -- any idea why that is not translating?
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:18 pm

BigE wrote:Thanks again Helluva.

I wonder how she'll react to this review? Her low level drills with that show foot tipping look pretty good -- any idea why that is not translating?


My guess is that she is doing the lower level drills without ever achieving balance on the stance ski. If that is what is happening, then of course it won't translate. You need a skier who is versed in PMTS, a coach or otherwise, to evaluate what you're doing on snow with her because whatever it is, it isn't working to the effect that you'd like it to.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

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Re: MA request for not me

Postby milesb » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:06 pm

Compare her video with yours, the skiing is almost identical.
YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH78E6wIKnq3Fg0eUf2MFng
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby MonsterMan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Compare her video with yours, the skiing is almost identical.


That is also what I see.
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby geoffda » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:05 am

E, good on you for putting up video. I'm short on time, but the one thing nobody has mentioned is that she needs to narrow up her stance. She has narrow hips to begin with, so it doesn't take much width for her to get in trouble. You can see in one of her later turns where she gets really wide and ends up on the inside ski. When your feet get wider than your hips, unless you are carrying major energy at release, you can't get across without pushing the hip and you have to be really good to pull things back together at that point.

Drill to illustrate: Stand in the flat, feet together, slight flex in the knees, use your poles for balance. Pick a foot and tip to little toe-edge. Keep tipping until your range of motion is exhausted. Note both how much you were able to tip and how easily the tipping movements allowed the hip to move outside the base of support. It should have been necessary to use your poles to keep yourself upright. Now try it with feet at hip width. Still possible, still good range of motion, but it takes more range of motion to get the hips to move outside the base of support. Now spread your feet so they are wider than your hip width. Try tipping now. What happens to your range of motion? What effect does tipping have on the hips?
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby BigE » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:09 am

Thanks geoffda,

once she saw the video, this leapt out at her. Even after skiing all day with a sponge, the stance wants to widen after. I don't know if it is mental discipline or just failure to commit balance to the stance leg. I suspect both, but mostly the latter.
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby Max_501 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:56 am

BigE,

I can see that you have been working hard on improving racerE's skiing. There is some good stuff going on here. Let's take a closer look to see what's working and what can be improved.

Tipping - these three frames show the inside foot LTE tipping movement.

Image

Image

Image

Flexing - these 2 frames show that the skier is working on flex to release.

Image

Image

This is a good start. Now work on bending/flexing the legs more (and the back less) so we see close to 90 degrees at the knee. Like this pic of Shiffrin.

Image

Upper body - these 3 frames show a fairly stable upper body (CB, CA, and hands).

Image

Image

Image

The good news is that alot of the PMTS work is showing up in racerE's skiing!

So, what's the next step?

The video often shows a wider two footed stance that is common among junior racers. This stance results in too much weight/balance on the inside ski. At this point, the single most important movement (really more of a skill than a movement) is working on establishing balance on the outside ski (from the beginning through the end of the arc). This will require narrowing the stance, lightening (via outside leg flexion) the inside foot, and pulling/holding back the free foot.

Best drill - Super phantom with touch-tilt:

As in a regular super phantom, transfer balance to LTE of the uphill ski. Then, touch the inside edge of the lifted, dowhnill ski to the inside ankle rivet of the stance boot ("arch touches ankle"). Keep it touching while tipping the free foot further toward its LTE. Don't let that free foot touch the snow until the very end of the turn. VERY IMPORTANT STEP! At the end of the turn, when the free foot touches the snow on its LTE, immediately pick up the new free foot, and touch-tilt the new stance boot.

When learning, racerE can begin with keeping the tip of the free ski on the snow, but the goal is to keep the whole ski lifted throughout the turn which is a true test of the skier's ability to balance on the outside ski.

BigE, reread the Free Foot Management section of Book 2 to be sure you know what to look for when working with racerE on this. Start with the Pole Press drill (pages 68 - 69 of book 2) so racerE has a good understanding of the muscular effort needed to hold the free foot against the stance boot.
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby Bolter » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:40 am

Max_501 shows how a top level Coach builds a plan of action to effect change. This is not bullet points of negativity devoid of empathy- this is effective Coaching that will keep RacerE motivated and wanting more. There is a delineated path to improvement. Expert skiing and expert Coaching? From what I can gather, Max has earned it. I would gladly take Coaching from him and would put any athlete on our Team in his care.

Max gives credit to the movements and efforts to ski correctly that are there in the video. IMO Heluva is way off the mark.

I don't really know but this appears to be Black Level Coaching to me.

Coaching at a highly effective level involves much more than running through a checklist. This approach is only marginally better than the mechanical reproduction of memorized progressions employed by TTS (see Instructors Manual SD-6). Checklists to unearth the SMIM are great but that is only a part of the process. RTE movement is the best method for MA. If a Learning Partnership has any hope of happening more is required. Max did it.

JR
Last edited by Bolter on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby BigE » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:09 am

He sure did!

You should see how much her attitude towards skiing has improved since Max posted.
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Re: MA request for not me

Postby Bolter » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:36 pm

BigE wrote:He sure did!

You should see how much her attitude towards skiing has improved since Max posted.


Great news!

Love of sport is the greatest gift we can give to our young racers, they will carry it with them for a lifetime. If you lose sight of that there is a good chance you will demotivate, discourage and push an athlete away from the sport.



IMO keeping athletes Jazzed about skiing and racing is a top priority. In our USSA division the number of racers who continue on to the U16, U18 age category drop off dramatically. If you look into the life changes and challenges of a young person, it is not hard to see why many choose to "drop out" of a sport that focuses on the individual. As a Coach you must always keep in mind who you are Coaching and how they perceive/process what you are saying and doing.
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