Short Turn MA

[jepoupatout]

What's about CB, when do we start exactly?

The stance leg stays long until you are ready to release*. When you feel the pressure on the ski, stand on it. The idea is this: Balance in the top of the arc to get set up (balance, not angles), then relax the free leg and continuously increase the flexion and tipping. This is a really tough idea to describe--because it requires both active movement and intentional relaxation simultaneously. You'll have to figure it out, but when you do, there will be no doubt in your mind that you got it. The skis will just whip around and the pressure won't come until the angles are huge. Jay calls this "the Whoosh." If you are supporting yourself at all on your inside ski, you won't be able to get this so check your counterbalance if things aren't working.

From the long stance leg, i flex with CA and decrease CB, in transition i maintain CA and pull back my both ski's. I set the new edges, when it is done , i start to build CA the other side as CB,I relax the free leg and continuously increase the flexion and tipping.

[Max_501]

What's about CB, when do we start exactly?

When you start tipping to the LTE. Think of CB as COUNTER TIPPING.

[HighAngles]

When you start tipping to the LTE. Think of CB as COUNTER TIPPING.

This is an awesome mental key. I actually arrived at a similar thought just a couple days ago (in my own weird way). You see, I had this realization that my CB was still lagging behind my "over-zealous" desire to achieve high edge angles. So I wondered what would happen if I reversed my thought process on CB and instead considered the counterbalancing movement to be the "primary" movement and the tipping to be the "secondary" movement. Then tipping is used to keep myself from falling over to the outside of the turn (COUNTER TIPPING ) . The tipping becomes the "counter" movement with this idea.

[jepoupatout]

The stance leg stays long until you are ready to release*. When you feel the pressure on the ski, stand on it. The idea is this: Balance in the top of the arc to get set up (balance, not angles), then relax the free leg and continuously increase the flexion and tipping.

In transition we are in a flex position, we can see picture or video of HH with a flex of almost 90 degree, is it the portion that refer at

Balance in the top of the arc to get set up (balance, not angles),

If we are already at 90 degree or at the maximum flex for a specific turn, how can we increase flexion?

then relax the free leg and continuously increase the flexion and tipping.

[geoffda]

Remember, there are two reasons to flex. We flex to release, but we also flex to increase our angles. When I was talking about continuously increasing the flexion, I was actually thinking about establishing angles in the first turn. Sorry if that caused you confusion.

Once you get established linking turns at a constant radius, the old stance leg is flexed to release and you begin flexing to suck that leg up and get it out of the way. At the neutral point in transition, where the skis are flat, the idea is to have equal flexion in both legs. At that point, you have sucked the old stance leg up enough to release and move to new edges so you don't need to continue flexing (unless you are planning on making a change in radius to make the next arcs tighter). Just hold that level of flexion and continuously tip.

The amount of flexion required will depend on the kind of turn you are making. More aggressive turns with higher edge angles will require more flexion. You can certainly max out your range of flexion and when you are performing Power Releases you should try to explore that.

[jepoupatout]

Question, when we are not on snow we can visualize easyly what the movement should be , however on snow everything is happening very rappidely . I always found it difficult to practice the movement and keep the momentum. Momemtum is critical to keep the movement natural and develop the pressure into the entire turn.
I've tried to visualize the movement many time and practice on the slant board but by experience on snow everything look different, accelerated. Too many thing is happening at the same time.
Do you propose to create a rhytme and stick on it or you do not care and practice very slowly? Too slow you lose momentum and doesn't feel naturel, too fast i cannot practice the movement correctely.
Without a coach like a lot of people on the forum we need to find a way to practice that will create result rapidely but also make a lot of sense to learn.
What isvthe best approach you recommend?

[milesb]

Actually, minimizing momentum by going very slow forces the skier to be very deliberate with the movements. Otherwise you will fail by stemming, twisting, and leaning.

[HighAngles]

Actually, minimizing momentum by going very slow forces the skier to be very deliberate with the movements. Otherwise you will fail by stemming, twisting, and leaning.

I agree. Go back to a fairly flat easy slope and work through the drills until you can perform them without needing to think about it too much. There are also a few static drills that you can work on using a side slope to ensure you have the releasing movements perfected and in the correct sequence.

[Max_501]

I always found it difficult to practice the movement and keep the momentum. Momemtum is critical to keep the movement natural and develop the pressure into the entire turn.

If you are losing momentum then something is wrong with the movements or timing of the movements. If you can get some video of skiing where you feel the loss of momentum we might be able to see the cause. In general, if you are making correct PMTS movements you shouldn't have to think about momentum.

The advice to go back to easy terrain and master the movements is a good place to start.

[Ken]

however on snow everything is happening very rapidly

It sounds like you are trying to learn too much too fast.

When something is new we have to consciously think about it. That is slow and tiring. And we can only think about one thing at a time. After several hundred repetitions of a movement we have "learned" it. The instructions for that movement now reside in our subconscious where it can be recalled very quickly with little effort. And, then we can think about and perform the next movement in the sequence until it is learned and moved to the subconscious. Then we can work on the next movement.... When things seem to "slow down" is a sign that we've actually leaned them.

Back to the green slopes and back to the basic movements. When you can satisfactorily perform a basic movement and find yourself thinking about other things...birds in the trees, tight stretch pants, etc...and continue to perform that movement without consciously thinking about it you are ready work on adding the next movement to the sequence.

There is a good reason why Harald's camps are four long, tiring, great exciting days.

[h.harb]

For skiers who are using momentum to cover up balance issues, there are definitely some movements they can improve upon. Look at this video, no momentum, but everything fits.

[jepoupatout]

Harald, i am not sure to understand your comment when you say

Look at this video, no momentum, but everything fits.

I was referring to this meaning when i wrote momentum

In physics, the property or tendency of a moving object to continue moving

.
So when i lose momentum, it is probably due to a bad sequence of movement from me, and the final result is the piece doesn't fit all together and a look static .

Do you propose to create a rhytme and stick on it or you do not care and practice very slowly? Too slow you lose momentum and doesn't feel naturel, too fast i cannot practice the movement correctely

I understand to do the movement slowly is harder, however we need speed that gave us energy to create the turn. Also we cannot practice all the time on easy slope year long, that's why i was referring to a cue, like rhytm or something else that will help to keep the movement going.

[geoffda]

I understand to do the movement slowly is harder, however we need speed that gave us energy to create the turn. Also we cannot practice all the time on easy slope year long, that's why i was referring to a cue, like rhytm or something else that will help to keep the movement going.

No. You do not need speed to create energy in your turns. What you need are good balance and good movements that allow you to properly engage the ski and keep bending it until you are ready to release. The better you are at both, the more able you are to bend the ski at very slow speeds. Doing movements slowly is easier because you have enough time to process whether you are actually accomplishing the movement. What makes it seem hard is the fact that you can't cheat. If you can't create and preserve energy at slow speeds, you have no hope of doing it properly at faster speeds. Your turns will undoubtedly feel better, but you will not have improved your skiing.

I'm not sure why you think you can't practice all the time on any easy slope. That is actually the pay off for getting this stuff right. When you can build and preserve energy with every turn you make, you can ski anywhere and have a great time. Early season in Colorado is all about skiing man-made snow on a handful of green and blue groomers, but I'm never bored. Every turn feels so good, that I don't actually have to care where I am. I'm out there every day skiing the same three groomers and every day I can't wait to go skiing.

Like Max_501 says, post up some more video and we can help determine why you are losing momentum in your turns.

[h.harb]

I was referring to this meaning when i wrote momentum

That is the whole point, the momentum is not the issue, the momentum you are referring to, you so seem to be saying you need, isn't being lost in my turns, unless you are doing something to impede it. That means you are creating an external reaction or force that is killing it. Ever time you turn up pick up the ability to add more momentum. So, either your skis are too flat (not enough tipping) or your upper body is rotating to over turn your skis. Both will kill momentum. This kind of efficient skiing in the video I posted is more a result of balance and standing on the outside ski to bend it into an arc. If you do both the energy that is created is more than enough to project you into the next turn without loosing speed or momentum.

[A.L.E]

I'm not sure why you think you can't practice all the time on any easy slope. That is actually the pay off for getting this stuff right. When you can build and preserve energy with every turn you make, you can ski anywhere and have a great time. Early season in Colorado is all about skiing man-made snow on a handful of green and blue groomers, but I'm never bored. Every turn feels so good, that I don't actually have to care where I am. I'm out there every day skiing the same three groomers and every day I can't wait to go skiing.

Couldn't agree more. There are no boring ski areas with PMTS.
PMTS skiers are the ones making the most of every square inch they ski.
We are the skiers who even love cat tracks.....great tipping practice zones. Just keep an eye out for the straight liners from behind.