MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby ChuckT » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:39 pm



I thought I had made real progress. But as usual, perception is not reality. Thanks very much for your critiques and suggestions.
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby Max_501 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:23 am

Start here with a self MA -

Is the stance width appropriate for the size of the skier?
Does the release start by flexing the outside leg?
Does LTE tipping lead engagement to the new turn?
Are the feet pulled back at transition?
Is the inside foot held back throughout the turn?
Is there enough CB and CA and is the timing right?
Is the pelvis included in the CB/CA movement?
Strong inside arm?
Is the inside leg flexed as the turn progresses?
Does the outside leg extend naturally (no pushing) as the turn progresses?
Does LTE tipping of the inside foot continue throughout the turn?
Is the skier balanced over the outside ski?
Is there a pole touch and how is the movement and timing?
Alignment - watch the skis and knees carefully - does anything look like it needs go be tipped in or out?
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby Skizoo » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:44 am

Max_501 wrote:Is the stance width appropriate for the size of the skier?


Max, the first item on your checklist, do you have a ref for where or how the above can be determined?

great checklist.. thx..
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby ChuckT » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:16 pm

Max,

As a frequent reader of this site, I know of your list and have tried to use it. But unfortunately, my MA skills suck even more than my skiing. Here is my own self assessment using the list:

Is the stance width appropriate for the size of the skier? Guess so. Don't know.

Does the release start by flexing the outside leg? I think so - Please point out if and how video shows otherwise

Does LTE tipping lead engagement to the new turn? I think so - Please point out if and how video shows otherwise. I think on some frames my inside ski had higher angle than outside ski. I don't know if this is irrelevant, bad, or good.

Are the feet pulled back at transition? I think so - Please point out how video shows otherwise

Is the inside foot held back throughout the turn? I think so - Please point out how video shows otherwise

Is there enough CB and CA and is the timing right? I don't know. I don't know what the right timing is

Is the pelvis included in the CB/CA movement? I tried, but don't know for sure

Strong inside arm? Should do more

Is the inside leg flexed as the turn progresses? I think so - Please point out how video shows otherwise

Does the outside leg extend naturally (no pushing) as the turn progresses? I think so - Please point out how video shows otherwise

Does LTE tipping of the inside foot continue throughout the turn? I think so - Please point out how video shows otherwise

Is the skier balanced over the outside ski? I think so - Please point out how video shows otherwise

Is there a pole touch and how is the movement and timing? I don't know. Please elaborate

Alignment - watch the skis and knees carefully - does anything look like it needs go be tipped in or out? I have no ideas. Please tell.

Much thanks,

Chuck
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby Max_501 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:54 pm

For your next video shooting session:

Have the camera operator stand about half way down the run. This depends on length of run and amount of terrain you can see. Generally I try to split the visible filming distance so I can get an equal number of turns from the front and back. Video at least 5 turns of the front, as the skier approaches, and then at least 5 turns from back, as the subject skis away. Pan smoothly as the subject passes keeping the skier in frame so we can see a side view. Use the zoom and OIS features if your camera has them. I suggest a max of 10x zoom which will help with image stability.
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby ChuckT » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:38 pm

Thanks, Max. I will try to get better video next time by having the kid standing half way down the slope. My video of him is also lousy. We both need to practice videoing. Our trouble is that we love skiing far more than shooting video. But this is indeed a necessary inconvenience to ski better. I thought, as I was skiing, that I got pretty good angle - only to be shown emphatically wrong.
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby HighAngles » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:10 pm

Another suggestion is to use short-medium radius turns. The big long "swooping" turns aren't the best for MA.
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby Max_501 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:08 pm

Chuck, what skis are you on?
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby ChuckT » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:44 pm

I was on the Dynastar Contact 4x4 165 cm. The listed turning radius is 14 m
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby HighAngles » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:16 pm

With a 14m radius you should be dancing down the slope, not sailing. :wink:
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby ChuckT » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:03 pm

HighAngles wrote:With a 14m radius you should be dancing down the slope, not sailing. :wink:

Yes. I was just too inspired by Harald's GS turns in the High Performance Free Skiing video to think more appropriately and really, really wanted to achieve a powerful GS carved turn. Alas, that was "a bridge too far".
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby oggy » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:49 am

Hi Chuck,

what I can observe: the most obviously lacking movement is CB. Your inside hip is always much lower than the outside hip, and your jacket zipper is essentially aligned with your legs. It's a little better on the turns to your right, as compared to turns to your left. You might try the various exercises from Essentials, or try dragging your outside pole, but making sure you don't do it by simply lowering your hand.

Your stance also seems a bit wider on the turns to your left, I don't quite know why. I'm guessing it could be wrong tipping mechanics (always tip by lifting your BTE), or a consequence of less CB making you fall inside and forcing you to a wider stance.

Other than that, I think you'd need more flexing of the inside leg, maybe pullback as well, but I can't really tell from the front view.

Cheers,
oggy
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby ChuckT » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:00 am

Thanks, oggy. Next time I will strive to do more flexing and CB.
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby Max_501 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:20 am

ChuckT wrote:We both need to practice videoing. Our trouble is that we love skiing far more than shooting video.


Whenever I get a new camera I find a nice safe spot to practice shooting video of cars. Ideally in a 25 to 30 MPH zone coming down a hill but a flat road works too. Practice until you can zoom in/out smoothly and pan smoothly as the car passes.

ChuckT wrote:I thought, as I was skiing, that I got pretty good angle - only to be shown emphatically wrong.


Angles should be the result of proper movements. Take a look at my avatar. That frame was from a run taken during a day of doing drills to create a BPST. I wasn't working on creating angles. In that run I was working on exaggerated flexing and tipping. The angles were a result of working on the Essentials.

You have some good stuff going on. Take a look at the bottom of the run, where it flattens out and you do get some decent angles. Lets take a look at what you are doing now and what could change to get you moving towards HH angles.

- You are making GS/SG sized turns on SL skis. This is due to missing or mistimed Essentials and turn finish. The easiest ways to address this is to start on page 1 of Book 2 and work through each chapter. Don't progress to the next chapter until you can pass that chapter's test. You will learn each Essential needed to create a BPST which is also a prerequisite for making carved turns. Note that the carving chapter of Book 2 is the first chapter of the GRADUATE course. PMTS carving is an advanced skill that requires all of the Essentials. A few years ago I created a thread titled Carving Madness which talks about this. I think jbotti created a similar thread. BPST first, carving second.

- Tipping: In turns like these we should be able to spot an O frame yet I don't see any. That suggests your tipping of the new inside ski is delayed and instead following your hip movement. The inside foot should always lead the inside hip. This is your SMIM so really work your favorite tipping drills. The good news is you can make a big improvement with a tipping board.

- Inside foot management: I'm throwing this in here because along with tipping you need to work on what is happening with the inside foot. In the video you can see that it often gets away from you, especially at the top of the arc. Book 2 has some great drills that will yield big dividends.

- Flexing timing: it looks like you are flexing too early, giving in to the turn forces before you need to. This reduces the arc you get from the skis. Don't flex until you are ready to end the turn.

- Flexing amount: in a couple of turns you got a decent amount, but in many you could use a lot more. Work on your range of motion and try to flex to a full 90 degree bend in the knees (if you can). Somewhere I have video showing this and I'll edit this post with the link when I find it.

- Flex into the new turn: you can make a big improvement by holding the flex into the new turn. In the video you flex and then immediately extend. This makes it much harder to tip the inside foot and in your case is loading up the inside ski far too early. So, flex to release and then hold that flex as you enter the new turn. Keep flexing the inside leg (it should stay where you started or get shorter) and only allow the outside leg to extend as required to maintain snow contact.

- CB: In some turns you display shoulder driven CB, but it comes too late so at that point you already have too much weight on the inside ski, which contributes to the GS sized arcs. Work on including the pelvis in your CB movement so the inside hip is raised. Work on timing so CB happens with the tipping. And of course don't forget to support CB with proper pole usage.

- CA: Same comments as CB. NSPP will be a good drill.

- Fore/aft: Difficult to assess from this video but we can see the front of the skis throwing some snow so we know you aren't on the tails. Working on free foot management will improve things. My guess is you will need a stronger pullback once you start flexing and holding that flex.
Last edited by Max_501 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MA Request for Supposedly Carved Turns

Postby ChuckT » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:36 am

Thanks so much Max. I'm Evernoting your MA so that I don't forget anything while practicing on the slopes. Can't tell you how much I appreciate the details you pointed out (which I had no clues before).
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